Baro damper question

Baro damper question

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:52 am

I have basically NO room for a baro damper but I was wondering if I cold mount it facing straight down?

My only stove pipe right now is a 90* elbow coming out the back or the stove and a round to oval adapter above that. If I replaced the elbow with a tee, then I could put the baro facing down. I have no idea how these things work, or even why I want one but there is so much talk of them here, I thought I might try. I sure as heck don't know anything but what is working for me right now. If I can do it better, I'd like to.

Thanks

Jeff
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:57 am

Hi Jeff, nope won't work unless the face is vertical.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:58 pm

Can you replace the botton elbow with a tee, with the tee end facing up? Then install a cap on the rear facing end for cleanout purposes. Place another tee above that one with the tee end facing sideways, mount the baro in there, then adapt to your oval.
You only need a baro if the chimneys draft under a full fire is more then Harman states in the manual (.06 to 1.0" of WC). I run my Mark I at .05.
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Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

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Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: WNY On: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:32 pm

Depends on your chimney and draft, if You have a moderate draft, you may not even need one,

Baro's limit the draft out of your stove and maintain it when there are fluctuations in the wind, heat, cold, etc....it really won't hurt without one, but if you have a good draft, it can suck more heat out of the stove that you could use in the house, plus it reduces the temp of the exhaust up the chimney.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: crck On: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:43 pm

jeepers
I was just going to ask the question of do they make black stove pipe T's and
now my question is answered
crck
 
Stove/Furnace Make: US Stove/hotblast

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:56 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:Can you replace the botton elbow with a tee, with the tee end facing up? Then install a cap on the rear facing end for cleanout purposes. Place another tee above that one with the tee end facing sideways, mount the baro in there, then adapt to your oval.
You only need a baro if the chimneys draft under a full fire is more then Harman states in the manual (.06 to 1.0" of WC). I run my Mark I at .05.


I literally only have room for the elbow and the adapter. I have no idea what my draft is or even how to check it. I use a manual damper at the outlet of the stove. If I don't, I don't get ANY heat out of the stove. I know people run without them, but I tried it for a whole season and chewed up a bunch of coal without getting much heat. Once I put the damper in, the fire was very controllable and I can keep my house at darn near any temp I want it at.

Again, I don't want to start the whole debate again, I'm just saying what's working for me. If a baro was going to be somehow "better" I'd try to find a way to do it.

I wonder if it would work facing backwards?

I probably should post a picture to illustrate the limited amount of space I'm working with here. My stove is essentially an "insert" at this point. It's tucked right into the original fireplace. Not a whole lot of room behind or above it.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: av8r On: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:05 pm

A baro only needs to be installed with the "flapper" side both plumb and level. It can face any direction that will allow the flapper to move as intended.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:41 am

If the stovepipe has no room for a baro you can put it in the chimney itself. It is a bigger job, so I would get a handle on what the draft really is and if a baro is necessary before doing so.

http://www.fieldcontrols.com/draftcontrol.php
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:03 am

Please post photos of your set up if possible.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:50 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:Please post photos of your set up if possible.


Here's the pictures.
Image

You can just about fit your hand between the pipe and the back wall of the fireplace
Image

The metal plate blocks off where the original fireplace damper was. I didn't remove it but the previous owner had just flatened a piece or stove pipe until it fit. And he did not extend the pipe up to the roof, it just ended about a foot above the hole. I have no idea how he didn't kill himself and his family. With this setup, it just goes into the existing chimney. There is no pipe above that plate. I do have a chimney cap though.
Image
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Cap On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:23 pm

Jpete--

Baro's are overrated in my opinion, especially with a Harman unit. Your hand damper on the ash pan door will control the draft with 95% effectiveness. Like WYN said, the best thing a baro will do for a Harman is slow the burn down in order you do not waste coal & its usable heat. Windy days it will aid in a consistent burn. This is the only time I find it of any use.

Keep your additional flue located hand damper open unless you are burning wood..

I foiled my Baro
They call me the anti-baro guy.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:32 pm

Cap wrote:Jpete--

Baro's are overrated in my opinion, especially with a Harman unit. Your hand damper on the ash pan door will control the draft with 95% effectiveness. Like WYN said, the best thing a baro will do for a Harman is slow the burn down in order you do not waste coal & its usable heat. Windy days it will aid in a consistent burn. This is the only time I find it of any use.

Keep your additional flue located hand damper open unless you are burning wood..

I foiled my Baro
They call me the anti-baro guy.


It just seems like I don't get much heat out of the stove when I run the damper open. I sometimes do that if I know people are coming over who might not appreciate the heat like I do. :D
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Cap On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:45 pm

A barometric damper will only prevent you from making more heat as it slows the draft in order to maintain consistency.. Try more air on the ash pan damper for more heat. 1.5 to 2 turns should be about right AFTER you have a good hot fire.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:18 pm

jpete wrote:
Wood'nCoal wrote:Please post photos of your set up if possible.


Here's the pictures.
Image

You can just about fit your hand between the pipe and the back wall of the fireplace
Image

The metal plate blocks off where the original fireplace damper was. I didn't remove it but the previous owner had just flatened a piece or stove pipe until it fit. And he did not extend the pipe up to the roof, it just ended about a foot above the hole. I have no idea how he didn't kill himself and his family. With this setup, it just goes into the existing chimney. There is no pipe above that plate. I do have a chimney cap though.
Image


So the prior owner flattened a piece of stove pipe and shoved it through the open fireplace damper, it was open to room air around the pipe? Just wanted to make sure I understood you. Actually, some wood stove installs are done that way. My Fisher insert was designed to exhaust into the fireplace opening, no pipe attached. the exhaust just exited the stove and rose up to the fireplace damper and up the chimney. There was a deflector plate to shield the metal panel that blocked the rest of the fireplace opening. There is no pipe connection on the top of the stove. When the liner was installed a cast iron adapter was placed on top of the stove that created a collar for the liner to fit into. An open fireplace damper created a pretty good draft in the chimney, just because it's such a large opening. That's probably the only reason the previous owner didn't expire from CO poisoning. It's also a good way to suck all the heat out of your house. Before the liner, I had to remember to close the damper when the stove was out. Now, problem solved.

There really is no room to install a baro on your set-up. You can run the Manometer into the pipe just before the metal plate to test the draft. Just remember to set the manual damper fully open for an accurate test. If the flue size is more then 6 X 6 it may very well be pulling too much draft.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Baro damper question

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:26 pm

BTW, that manual damper was added to your Harman. They don't build them with manual dampers in the stove collar.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

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