Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

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Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

no
4
15%
yes
23
85%
 
Total votes : 27

Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:05 pm

A single jury's decision would be totally unlikely to result in the nullification of any law. It takes repeated jury decisions of a like bent, in each case finding for the defendant and against the state, for precedent to be set and a clear message to be sent to the lawmakers that they need to change things.
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:14 pm

Some of the States (exercising their rights under the 10th Amendment, which was never revoked) are apparently battling Obamacare via a form of nullification that President Obama is about to attempt to squash. Read about it here: http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/03/obama ... obamacare/

If Obama wins, this may bring the end of States (which are mere figments barely hanging in there at this juncture already, having had their rights trampled under foot by Abe Lincoln many years ago).
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: tsb On: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:30 pm

Nullification occurs on a local scale in quite short order. I serve on the local Zoning Board and
hear cases pertaining to the local zoning codes. If the Supervisors pass a confusing, poorly written,
dumb ass ordinance, it doesn't take long for them to realize we're not going to enforce it. They
can then either fire us or change the ordinance. They have always changed the ordinance.
On the oath note. I always advised lawyers at the start of the hearings that they and their clients
are held to the same perjury laws and penalties as if they were in a court of law. Pisses them off
something awful, but it's quite true.
tsb
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:43 am

Ok, after thinking about it for awhile and reading what people had to say and doing some reading on the subject and considering the statement that it is the citizens duty to disobey an unjust law, I have changed my vote. I would however like to hear from the 4 people who have voted as I did initially. Are they equally unclear about the question or is it how they feel after some thought?

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:03 am

KLook
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:02 pm

I wonder what sort of referendum would be required in order to get this onto the ballet in each state (or nationwide) and bring us back to our founding roots whereby the jury is instructed of the validity of this option by each judge?
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: home harvest On: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:20 pm

I voted YES! And I'd like to add a couple of comments.

First, I believe Jury nullification is the last defense against an overbearing government or POLITICIAN (I include DA's among the ranks of politicians by virtue of being elected officials) using the letter of the law unfairly or to further their careers.

As I understand it, prohibition ended primarily because DA's could no longer get convictions against bootleggers. They lost the will to prosecute when juries refused to convict.

I see the potential for the same to begin to happen with gun and drug laws. The prisons are already full of non-violent drug users, and I anticipate a day soon when all of us will be criminals by virtue of owning a gun.

On the other hand, I don't believe we need a ballot referendum. I think we need a public education campaign. We can't expect the fox to continue guarding the henhouse, and I see no point in expecting judges to promote informed juries. Take the power out of the judge's hands and put it back in the people's, where it belongs. Everyone has a duty to understand the responsibilities of citizenship, and jury duty is one of the most important. I should say that jury duty SHOULD be one of the most important duties of a citizen. First we need to change the jury selection process. The stacked juries we get today are a joke. Anyone who shows a bit of knowledge of our rights is immediately excluded. The Lord help the DA that ever gets me on the jury in a victimless crime. I'll never convict.
home harvest
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:49 pm

Here's the root problem (for the defendant) in todays system of trying cases based only upon whether or not the defendant has broken the law as it is written and as it stands upon the books.

All defense evidence and testimony regarding issues that the judge determines to be outside of the facts as they exist regarding specifically the law as written and currently on the books are inadmissible in court. Therefore a defendant who attempts a defense based upon the law itself (or any facet of it) being unjust as their very reason for breaking it can not testify in court as to why he or she believes this to be the case. In effect, this wipes out any possibility of a defense based upon the law itself being questionable ever being presented before the jury (despite that being the reason for violation), and the jury as a result hears nothing in the courtroom that would place question or doubt upon any part of the law itself.

The catch 22 here is that if you break a law based 100% upon your heart felt belief that it is unsound, you will find that you will have no avenue in court to present your case, and your defense efforts trending in that direction will be silenced, and the jury will be instructed to overlook what they just nearly heard, and you will be toast as a result. In this system, justice is not blind, but rather is weighted heavily toward the prosecution (which is generally the state).
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:20 am

And this is where it all leads. "Land of the Free" indeed...

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 41446.html

There Are Now More Americans In Jail Than There Were In Stalin’s Gulag Archipelago
jpete
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:54 am

jpete wrote:And this is where it all leads. "Land of the Free" indeed...

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 41446.html

There Are Now More Americans In Jail Than There Were In Stalin’s Gulag Archipelago

I didn't realize it was so bad compared to other countries.

Is our country too permissive or too repressive? Is it drugs that are responsible?

How would Libertarianism improve things?
franco b
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:37 pm

franco b wrote:How would Libertarianism improve things?


I believe they would at the very least strive to return justice to its originally intended blind state.
lsayre
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:39 pm

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:And this is where it all leads. "Land of the Free" indeed...

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/20 ... 41446.html

There Are Now More Americans In Jail Than There Were In Stalin’s Gulag Archipelago

I didn't realize it was so bad compared to other countries.

Is our country too permissive or too repressive? Is it drugs that are responsible?

How would Libertarianism improve things?


It's far too repressive. We're more repressive than other places we label repressive.

A "small l" libertarian believes everyone has a right to live life free from force and fraud.

At the end of the day, those are the only "real" crimes. Assault, rape, murder, robbery, etc are all uses of force against an individual.

Fraud is lying to achieve an outcome. Such as removing your money or other property from you by misrepresenting myself or others.

Drug use/possession isn't a crime because it doesn't do either of those two things. Now if you steal from me to pay for your drug habit, that's a different story.

But mere possession is not a crime.

Same with prostitution. It's a business transaction between two consenting parties. In the case of "sex slavery", well then, that's the use of force against an individual and is therefore a crime.

What is and isn't a crime becomes pretty simple if you look at it from that perspective.
jpete
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:29 pm

I didn't realize it was so bad compared to other countries.

Is our country too permissive or too repressive? Is it drugs that are responsible?

How would Libertarianism improve things?[/quote]

It's far too repressive. We're more repressive than other places we label repressive.

A "small l" libertarian believes everyone has a right to live life free from force and fraud.

At the end of the day, those are the only "real" crimes. Assault, rape, murder, robbery, etc are all uses of force against an individual.

Fraud is lying to achieve an outcome. Such as removing your money or other property from you by misrepresenting myself or others.

Drug use/possession isn't a crime because it doesn't do either of those two things. Now if you steal from me to pay for your drug habit, that's a different story.

But mere possession is not a crime.

Same with prostitution. It's a business transaction between two consenting parties. In the case of "sex slavery", well then, that's the use of force against an individual and is therefore a crime.

What is and isn't a crime becomes pretty simple if you look at it from that perspective.[/quote]
Sounds good but also Utopian in that the same tortured and twisted logic would be applied to the goals and rules you name just as they are to our existing Constitution. What seems simple becomes complicated in a hurry once the lawyers and special interests get a hold on it.
franco b
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:46 pm

franco b wrote:Sounds good but also Utopian in that the same tortured and twisted logic would be applied to the goals and rules you name just as they are to our existing Constitution. What seems simple becomes complicated in a hurry once the lawyers and special interests get a hold on it.


That's where William Shakespeare comes in :D


All:
God save your majesty!

Cade:
I thank you, good people—there shall be no money; all shall eat
and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one livery,
that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord.

Dick:
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Cade:
Nay, that I mean to do.
Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78
jpete
 
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Re: Poll: Do you believe in "Jury Nullification of the Law"?

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:11 pm

I think you got it! I think you got it !
franco b
 
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