condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:30 am

av8r wrote:Would it be possible for someone to burn enough anthracite coal in one season in a stoker to create enough flyash in the pipes to reduce the draft even a little? I would think you'd need a pretty significant accumulation of ash in a 6" pipe to reduce the small amount of draft required to run one of these stoves. Maybe I'm wrong.


Yes would be the answer. Some installs will have relativly no accumulation in a year and some may need to be cleaned 3 or 4 times a season. The only way to know is to get in there and clean it to see what is there. Once you know, you can determine how often yours needs to be cleaned. It doesn't take a lot of ash either, again, it depends on a lot of factors. Be safe and clean it, then you will know.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: av8r On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:32 am

WNY wrote:Depends on the coal and your chimney, Yes, it might take a lot to build up in a 6" pipe, but using using the numbers.
Quick calc. (Area = Pi * Diam)

6" pipe = 6.0" x 3.14 = 18.8 Sq. In. Area

With Ash build-up of say 1/2" (now the pipe ID will be 5.5")
5.5" x 3.14 = 17.27 Sq. In. Area

That's about 10% loss in Area.

I just checked and vacuumed my pipe and had probably 1/2-3/4" thick in the horizontal run out of the stove and all around the ash pan, I have probably only burn maybe 1-1.5 ton so far....you would be surprized if you don't check it often. I was!!


It might be fun to do some fluid dynamics calculations on this to figure out how much is too much ash.

Yes would be the answer. Some installs will have relativly no accumulation in a year and some may need to be cleaned 3 or 4 times a season. The only way to know is to get in there and clean it to see what is there. Once you know, you can determine how often yours needs to be cleaned. It doesn't take a lot of ash either, again, it depends on a lot of factors. Be safe and clean it, then you will know.


I'm a born skeptic so I'll need some actual data that shows how much is too much before I'll just jump on an ambiguous statement like that. Nothing personal....just how I'm wired.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:59 am

av8r wrote: Would it be possible for someone to burn enough anthracite coal in one season in a stoker to create enough flyash in the pipes to reduce the draft even a little?


That's subjective, even the coal can affect it. Ours for example has a huge flue pipe and the design tends to keep most of the ash in the furnace. We only get about inch and half, maybe 2 inches each year. I'd imagine it could go many years without doing any maintenance but I haven't tested this theory out and have no intentions of trying it. ;)
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite


Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:01 am

av8r wrote:I'm a born skeptic so I'll need some actual data that shows how much is too much before I'll just jump on an ambiguous statement like that. Nothing personal....just how I'm wired.


Its not ambiguous, the data you seek would only apply to what was tested, not what someone else has. Again, there are to many factors separating each install to make a broadbrush statment to cover everything. Each installation has different characteristics and will need to be maintained according to them, not some theoretical data. Running a stove from someone else's data could be a death warrant.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:04 am

WOW, we all like to "ANAL"ize all of this stuff sometimes way too much....but, makes it fun and interesting to see what all of us come up with. :)

And like you said, what works for one person, may not for another, every situation is different....Read your manual, do your maintence and BE SAFE!!! :!:
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: av8r On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:45 pm

I guess what it boils down to is that it isn't the reduction in internal area that causes the issue as much as the effect the collection of ash has on the laminar flow characteristics of the air in the pipe. Depending on each install and it's inherent turbulence, the amount of ash that will affect the draft will be different.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:24 pm

WNY wrote:WOW, we all like to "ANAL"ize all of this stuff sometimes way too much....but, makes it fun and interesting to see what all of us come up with. :)

And like you said, what works for one person, may not for another, every situation is different....Read your manual, do your maintence and BE SAFE!!! :!:


Right! Stop thinking about every "what if" and minute detail, get the hell off of the forum and go and vacuum out the pipes!!!!!!
That's why I like the baro where it is on my set-up, I can look in with a flashlight at anytime and see how much ash is built up in the pipe. The clean out for the chimney is easy to get to as well, I slide the clothes dryer out (I have it on wheels) and the clean out is right there.
One of the objectives I try to adhere to is to try to make things easier to do. But as the saying goes, "Do it my way, anyone can do it the right way".
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:27 pm

av8r wrote:I guess what it boils down to is that it isn't the reduction in internal area that causes the issue as much as the effect the collection of ash has on the laminar flow characteristics of the air in the pipe. Depending on each install and it's inherent turbulence, the amount of ash that will affect the draft will be different.


Calculations in my low wattage brain say if a 6" pipe is half full of ash then you only have internal space equivalent to a 3" pipe. How the ash build up affects the flow is beyond my wattage.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: av8r On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:49 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:
av8r wrote:I guess what it boils down to is that it isn't the reduction in internal area that causes the issue as much as the effect the collection of ash has on the laminar flow characteristics of the air in the pipe. Depending on each install and it's inherent turbulence, the amount of ash that will affect the draft will be different.


Calculations in my low wattage brain say if a 6" pipe is half full of ash then you only have internal space equivalent to a 3" pipe. How the ash build up affects the flow is beyond my wattage.

Me too...I used the internet and a friend who is a physicist!
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:10 pm

av8r wrote: Me too...I used the internet and a friend who is a physicist!


I hope you aren't talking to the guy in your avatar. :)
Last edited by coaledsweat on Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: av8r On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:20 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
av8r wrote: Me too...I used the internet and a friend who is a physicist!


I hope you arn't talking to the guy in your avatar. :)


naww....he's on vacation right now...
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:21 pm

av8r wrote:
coaledsweat wrote:
av8r wrote: Me too...I used the internet and a friend who is a physicist!


I hope you arn't talking to the guy in your avatar. :)


naww....he's on vacation right now...


Choir Invisible
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:39 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:Calculations in my low wattage brain say if a 6" pipe is half full of ash then you only have internal space equivalent to a 3" pipe. How the ash build up affects the flow is beyond my wattage.


Ummm no, think of a 6 inch circle. You cut in half so you have half moon shape. A 3 inch circle is going to fit in your half a six inch pipe. It's been too long since I had Geometry but I'd guess half a six inch pipe is at least double and probably more.
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Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:44 pm

Richard S. wrote:
Wood'nCoal wrote:Calculations in my low wattage brain say if a 6" pipe is half full of ash then you only have internal space equivalent to a 3" pipe. How the ash build up affects the flow is beyond my wattage.


Ummm no, think of a 6 inch circle. You cut in half so you have half moon shape. A 3 inch circle is going to fit in your half a six inch pipe. It's been too long since I had Geometry but I'd guess half a six inch pipe is at least double and probably more than a 3 inch pipe.


Told ya I have a low wattage brain! you are correct, sir.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: condinsation and sulfer smell inside hopper

PostBy: e.alleg On: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:46 am

I would think that the ash will build up at the first elbow, like when the snowplow keeps pushing snow against the curb. Eventually, the gasses can't flow smoothly through the T and will back up on some installs. It's probably best to install a "T" at the first elbow so it's easy to clean out.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520