LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: sauerzbr On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:07 am

I just started up my LL Pocono this past weekend! Starter bag, coal and a single match, VERY EASY startup!! I've got a 34x53 basement and it heated it up to 70 degrees in about 2 hours. I also installed a magic heat reclaimer unit. Once the basement was up to temp, the stove pretty much seems to run on a low burn as the unit doesn't appear to get that hot like it did at startup. Makes sense. So it's running on low burn, however the two big blower fans still appear to be running on HIGH and blowing just somewhat warm air.

QUESTION: Shouldn't the blowers be kicking down when it's running on a low burn? Or are they suppose to run high all the time?

I disconnected one of the big blower fans and it quieted the unit down and decreased the air flow and the temp in the basement still maintains nicely. Still seems like a bit to much air flow.

Have the same issue with the magic heat, fan runs high all the time and on low burn, blowing nothing but cool air as the magic heat unit isn't much better than warm. Going to mount a variable/dimmer switch to it to run it on a low speed.
sauerzbr
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono Top Vent

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: Matthaus On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:23 am

If you are running a Coal-Trol then make sure the convection fans are plugged into the convection fan outlet. If they are they should be not running/barely running when the room temp and set point are the same.

I use a rheostat on my magic heat units and run them on low when the stoves are idling, and ramp them up as the weather dictates. You can turn the Magic Heat fan off with the toggle switch in the back if the weather stays warm for a while.

If you are not running a Coal-Trol then you need a rheostat for the convection fans as well.

Hopes this helps a little. :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: sauerzbr On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:32 am

This is a brand new Pocono with the coaltrol unit and I hooked it up with the color coded wires as instructed, I'll double check to assure everything matches up. I believe they do. I'm glad to hear that the blowers should run up and down as needed.


As for the magic heat rheostat setup you have, can you explain that further. Assuming a device that adjusts voltage accordingly based on the temperature it senses. That would be a great setup!
sauerzbr
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono Top Vent

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: Matthaus On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:39 am

The Magic Heat has a snap disc set to 140*F I believe, if the toggle switch is off the fan will run when the stack temp reaches the value of the snap disc. As far as control of fan speed I don't have anything complicated, just a simple rheostat designed for shaded pole motors and located at a convenient spot so I can adjust it as I pass by the stove. ;)

If you need a source for good quality rheostats at a reasonable price, I have been buying mine from these folks:

http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/kbwc.htm
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: sauerzbr On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:57 am

Thanks for the link! That will work perfectly...

As for the coaltrol unit, I just brought up the control pics from the maufacturer website and none of their unit pictures look like my unit. Their basic unit looks likek mine but has 3 plugs on the bottom, mine only has two, I don't have have a center plug on the bottom. My two blower fans are plugged into a socket on the right side lower socket on the coaltrol unit.... None of the plugs are labels like they are on their website. All our color tie wraps are connected correctly as per LL. I'm a little confused, will have to see what other sockets are available on the coaltrol and try plugging the blower fans into them to see what works.
sauerzbr
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono Top Vent

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:08 am

The blowers should vary in speed.

Do you have a pic of your coaltrol box or a model number on it? It just might be a basic unit, not sure if it has fan control on the thermostat box or not. Do you have the thermostat box plugged in?

Can you see if the combustion blower seem to vary in speed or blowing very slow?
If so, you may have the 2 fan plugs reversed. the Combustion blower will run 100% all the time, the convection blowers should vary with heat requirements.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: spc On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:17 am

You should be able to run the coal-trol in "test" mode to check your connections. Good luck.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: Matthaus On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:20 am

sauerzbr wrote:....Their basic unit looks likek mine but has 3 plugs on the bottom, mine only has two, I don't have have a center plug on the bottom. My two blower fans are plugged into a socket on the right side lower socket on the coaltrol unit.... None of the plugs are labels like they are on their website. All our color tie wraps are connected correctly as per LL. I'm a little confused, will have to see what other sockets are available on the coaltrol and try plugging the blower fans into them to see what works.


I believe the right plug should have both convection blowers plugged into it and the stoker motor should be plugged into the left plug. If you look at the basic unit on the website you will see that those are labled as such. The center plug would be the combustion fan, which just runs all the time any way so can be plugged into a wall outlet.

I'm sure Jerry or the good folks at Automation correct will chime in soon to further clarify. But in the mean time you can use the locations on the basic unit as a guide.

Whatever you try, make sure you stay with the stove and observe the changes, don't want to make any changes and then walk away. :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: av8r On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:00 am

Matthaus wrote:
sauerzbr wrote:....Their basic unit looks likek mine but has 3 plugs on the bottom, mine only has two, I don't have have a center plug on the bottom. My two blower fans are plugged into a socket on the right side lower socket on the coaltrol unit.... None of the plugs are labels like they are on their website. All our color tie wraps are connected correctly as per LL. I'm a little confused, will have to see what other sockets are available on the coaltrol and try plugging the blower fans into them to see what works.


I believe the right plug should have both convection blowers plugged into it and the stoker motor should be plugged into the left plug. If you look at the basic unit on the website you will see that those are labled as such. The center plug would be the combustion fan, which just runs all the time any way so can be plugged into a wall outlet.

I'm sure Jerry or the good folks at Automation correct will chime in soon to further clarify. But in the mean time you can use the locations on the basic unit as a guide.

Whatever you try, make sure you stay with the stove and observe the changes, don't want to make any changes and then walk away. :)


The Coal-Trol box on my LL Hearth doesn't have female sockets on the box like the generic Coal-Trol units shown on their website. Mine has "pigtails" with female sockets hanging out of the unit which I assume is done for LL as part of the deal they made with CA. Here is how my unit is wired. Facing the unit, starting at one o'clock and working clockwise around the unit:

(Green) Igniter,(Blue) combustion,(Yellow) convection and (Red) stoker As others here have said, the convection fan should be off or barely running if the Coal-Trol isn't calling for heat.

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av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:54 pm

Sauerzbr, please call us at 315-299-3589 to discuss this in more detail and see if we can figure out what is going on. It's easiest to diagnose and fix these issues over the phone. :) If you want to do some tests before you call, there are a few possibilities that come to mind:

- The unit is running fine. The speed of the convection fans will lag behind the feed rate. And as long as the feed rate indicates higher than 8 or so, the fans will run (feedrate can be read on the SETUP menu of the thermostat at the end of the menu, item FR). The speed of the motors will change very slowly so it can be difficult to realize it they're running slower than full speed. Try unplugging one of them from the coaltrol and plugging it into a wall socket to see if you hear a difference in the speed of the motor or feel a difference in the air flow from the heat vents.

- Defective power board. Unlikely, but possible. Usually if there is a problem with this one or more of the plug outputs will not power up at all when it is supposed to. To test, run the TEST mode. Hold the menu button in for 5 or so seconds, until the word FEED appears. Press the menu button once more, quickly this time, so it reads TEST. Press the down button to enter the test mode. While in this mode each of plugs will have power cycled on and then off, one output every few seconds. Check to see that the blowers come on and then turn off when they are supposed to (the thermo display will show which output it is currently powering up).

- The speed control circuit is getting "held open". This is rare with the motors that ship from the factory, but it is a possibility. This can happen when the motors plugged into the convection fan output are different enough from each other electronically speaking. To test for this first run the test mode as described above. If the blowers will not shut off once they are turned on, then try unplugging them both from the convection plug(s). Plug only one of them back in and see if it behaves correctly (turns on for a few seconds while the convection output is cycled on and then off). If so, switch blowers and see if the other one behaves too. Next plug both back in again. If they both turn on at the appropriate time, but they don't turn off, then this is the problem.
pvolcko
 

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: sauerzbr On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:34 pm

This evening, I'll go through everything you've stated above and report back.

Model is CM-OEM1
sauerzbr
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono Top Vent

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: sauerzbr On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:37 pm

What should be my feedrate setting FR? Approximately? Right now it's at like 40 and a low burn.

I'm burning about a 40lb bag or little more a day and it always seems to be in a low burn mode. About normal?

All my color coded wires are connected correctly.

I ran through the test mode and when the blowers come on, feels just like the way my blowers always run. They turned off each time during the test cycling.

I plugged the blower into a wall outlet and it seems like it runs a little stronger than when connected to the coaltrol, however not much difference.

Air coming out top of stove in test or low burn mode seems to be about the same. On low burn, the air is cool and really blowing like a 20-25 knot wind.... What should the air flow feel like in a low burn situation?
sauerzbr
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono Top Vent

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: av8r On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:34 pm

sauerzbr wrote:What should be my feedrate setting FR? Approximately? Right now it's at like 40 and a low burn.

I'm burning about a 40lb bag or little more a day and it always seems to be in a low burn mode. About normal?

All my color coded wires are connected correctly.

I ran through the test mode and when the blowers come on, feels just like the way my blowers always run. They turned off each time during the test cycling.

I plugged the blower into a wall outlet and it seems like it runs a little stronger than when connected to the coaltrol, however not much difference.

Air coming out top of stove in test or low burn mode seems to be about the same. On low burn, the air is cool and really blowing like a 20-25 knot wind.... What should the air flow feel like in a low burn situation?


The FR value on the Coal-Trol shows what percentage of the max value setting the stoker is running at. You can check the min and max settings through the setup menu mentioned in a previous post. 40% sounds like a medium burn. Do you have a magnetic temp gauge on the stove body somewhere? I'd be curious to know what the stove body temp is when you're at 40%. My Hearth model at idle runs around 150-170 degrees on the front steel panel near the top and will run between 0% and 8% at idle. At 40% FR, mine is running a medium fire and will be up around 300 degrees. Once it gets up past 65% or more FR, the stove will be over 400-450 degrees. I'm no expert, but at around 40% FR, my convection fan is running low enough that I can't hear it unless I'm right next to the stove, but there is enough air coming out that you can tell it's running. Once I get up where the stove is running at a higher feedrate, the convection fan really comes on strong..you can hear it from any room on my first floor and it's really blowing air.

Don't know if this helps or not, but I hope it does.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: WNY On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:36 pm

Check your min/Max setting on the Coal Trol, I would start at the recommended 6 min and 40 Max, On idle, your feed rate should be quite low.

Check your thermostat settings, setback setting, etc...there shoudlnt' be more than a 2-3 degree difference in the setback vs. actual.

FR 40 seems high if the temp is at the setpoint temp.

Can you change the set temp to the room temp or 1 degree below, wait 10-15 mins, then check the feed rate on the controller, it may go down to zero or a very low value and the blowers will go way down or shut off, once it senses it doesn't require heat.

If you setpoint is above room temp and it never reaches it, it will always require heat and the feed and blowers will be on a lot more.

Otherwise, depending on the heat up/cool down of the room, you have to adjust the Max. setting accordingly. (I think I have mine around 48 right now)
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: LL Pocono blower fans?? Run on high all the time?

PostBy: sauerzbr On: Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:31 pm

Did some testing:

My min/max settings were 6/40, room was at temp of 72 and FR was in upper 50's. Doesn't the max setting limitt he FR reading to a max of 40?

I put the thermostat in front of the stove so it would read a high room temp. Kept it there until FR went all the way to zero. Fans never slowed or stopped and the grinding noise of the feeder continues to go every few minutes. Is this normal.

Update: Went down to stove about 20 minutes later and stove fans finally were in an off state. So it appears it is working. Seems likes it's an either on or off position. I have an extrodinair wood fireplace and I'm use to blowers being VERY variable. Guess these work differently as I never noticed an inbetween air flow rate other than high and off.

I turned down the max setting to 30 to see how that works, still not sure why I was having such a high FR reading.

Appreciate everybody's help with this!!!!
sauerzbr
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono Top Vent

Visit Leisure Line Stove