And yet again, another new Executive Order

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:33 pm

samhill wrote:Just try & spend it wisely is all I ask, odd that the party that gave us the Great Recession is suddenly fiscally sound, oh wait they always did say the economy was fiscally sound. Is voting on defunding Obamacare over & over again not cost the taxpayer? How about since a Corp. is now a person then tax them as such & quit giving a person a subsidy that might be a good start. Just start doing what they are paid to do is all, how about that do you think they are doing a good job?


"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money." I don't know about you, but I'm plum tapped out.

Besides, if everyone in this nation was forced to share equally in the wealth we would find that everyone would eventually be living in poverty. Lets assume that the upper 1% earn 80% of the nations annually generated wealth. Take it all from them and now the families representing the 99% are all about twice as wealthy for one year as they were to begin with.

National GDP = 14 trillion dollars generated by the economy annually
80% of 14 trillion = 11.2 trillion dollars earned by the upper 1%
Take away 50% for taxes (about the total of taxes actually paid to cover all taxes, including local, state, federal, property, sales, military funding,education, etc...) and you have 5.6 trillion dollars remaining
Working class = 115 million people
99% of 115 million = 113.85 million
5.6 trillion dollars divided by 113.85 million people = $49,000 additional per working class family per year.

If we totally robbed the wealthy for one year, and then they shrugged and gave up and the nations industry and economy ground completely to a halt (please read Atlas Shrugged, or just read about the Russian economy and how it languished in the doldrums of dispair for decades after they did this), would it be worth it to get a handout of $49,000 per working class family for one year?

And on top of that, if everyone had twice as much money to spend, within one year everything would cost twice as much. That's just the way it is when twice the wealth chases the same amount of available goods. Then where would we be come year two?

And on top of that, much of the 11.2 trillion that the wealthy earn is reinvested in future growth, but you just took it from them, so now there is no chance for economic growth, and everything soon decays and rots to nothingness. And soon Detroit looks like heaven.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:44 pm

This has all been gone over before, I certainly don't want to take anyone's hard earned money & give it to a slug & I don't think anyone else does. That's a bunch of crap & you know it but I also don't think the other end of the food chain should get off free either, say what you wish about your hallowed 1% but I believe them to be no better than any one of us & should get no special treatment just as the bottom feeders shouldn't, we are supporting both ends from the middle.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:11 pm

You cannot have a middle without a bottom and a top. Stop bitching and just admit that the rich earn it and we make a living because the spend it.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000


Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:23 pm

samhill wrote:This has all been gone over before, I certainly don't want to take anyone's hard earned money & give it to a slug & I don't think anyone else does. That's a bunch of crap & you know it but I also don't think the other end of the food chain should get off free either, say what you wish about your hallowed 1% but I believe them to be no better than any one of us & should get no special treatment just as the bottom feeders shouldn't, we are supporting both ends from the middle.



I agree a flat tax and no deductions.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:40 pm

samhill wrote:This has all been gone over before, I certainly don't want to take anyone's hard earned money & give it to a slug & I don't think anyone else does.


I'll take that bet!
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:32 am

Klook, I'm not the one that is constantly complaining about the bottom & not the top. Just how do you classify what some do as earning their money? How much is a person at the top spending % wise to live on compared to everyone else & how much is hidden off shore? Do you think someone that runs a business into or near failure deserves the bonuses & golden parachute but a working man like yourself should have their pension (which most pay into) cut? All I say is to even the paying field.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:44 pm

samhill wrote:Do you think someone that runs a business into or near failure deserves the bonuses & golden parachute but a working man like yourself should have their pension (which most pay into) cut? All I say is to even the paying field.

Those are valid concerns; it's just that the solutions that liberals push are emotion driven without understanding the why of things that inevitably make worse what they try to accomplish. Look at Detroit and the large number of potential Detroits that are the result of liberal thinking.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:46 pm

franco b wrote:
samhill wrote:Do you think someone that runs a business into or near failure deserves the bonuses & golden parachute but a working man like yourself should have their pension (which most pay into) cut? All I say is to even the paying field.

Those are valid concerns; it's just that the solutions that liberals push are emotion driven without understanding the why of things that inevitably make worse what they try to accomplish. Look at Detroit and the large number of potential Detroits that are the result of liberal thinking.



Forest through all the trees and all that.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:32 pm

Do you mean to say that only liberal controlled cities are in financial trouble & that if they were conservative controlled cities, states or even the U.S. then everything was financially sound? Do you mean to say the flight of America's businesses for not only tax avoidance but tax incentives as well had nothing to do with it? The fact that both union & business had no foresight & lived only for the moment & a high return for investors above the quality of the product had nothing to do with it? Don't forget the last quite a few decades have been con. controlled & in saying that I'm not saying it was one sided as you imply, it's not now or ever was as easy as that so get over it already.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:24 pm

samhill wrote:Do you mean to say that only liberal controlled cities are in financial trouble & that if they were conservative controlled cities, states or even the U.S. then everything was financially sound? Do you mean to say the flight of America's businesses for not only tax avoidance but tax incentives as well had nothing to do with it? The fact that both union & business had no foresight & lived only for the moment & a high return for investors above the quality of the product had nothing to do with it? Don't forget the last quite a few decades have been con. controlled & in saying that I'm not saying it was one sided as you imply, it's not now or ever was as easy as that so get over it already.

OK, I seem to have hit a sore spot and for that I am sorry because that is not the way to convince anyone to convert to a different view.

All of what you say is true but only partially true. Should Stanley Tool have continued production in CT. and try to sell pliers for $15 when an equally good product could be made elsewhere for $4? They moved production to stay in business along with most others. As far as repatriating money, would you if after paying taxes in another country this country wanted a third of it more? If the tax were reasonable the money would come back and stimulate this economy instead of others. It makes for good political slogans though which you are not bashful to use.

Neither conservatives nor liberals have a monopoly on sleazy politicians who adopt those labels but act in accordance with their own personal interest.

I do respect your personal integrity and sincerity and you should probably charge for the therapy you provide as a target for the slings and arrows of conservatives. We can't hit on Jpete because he shoots back those one line bullets that sting.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:40 pm

Franco, did Stanley Tools get forced into giving those overhead costs or did they figure they could give that in good times. I used to go to a gym where a guy that inherited a cardboard box plant also was a member & he talked about his workers like they were the scum of the earth but it was them that took cuts to help a couple of lean times with his father. He came in one day with a classic Rolls Royce that he bought & said he was just going to do a fast workout & go to a union meeting. I told him he should go in like a older ford or something before he tried to tell them they had to give concessions, he said screw them but he darn near ended up losing his dad's business & I'm fairly sure it's gone now. It's a balancing act you have to share the good as well as the bad, & being honest goes a long way.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:18 pm

samhill wrote:being honest goes a long way.

There's the rub. But market forces are still going to determine if he and his company survives or not and personal management style is part of it.. Being a bastard as many are does not help.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:33 pm

Almost forgot, can you get me any of those $4 Stanley hammers, last one I bought was way over that & it was at cost & no where near the quality of their old Made in the USA tools. I would also venture to say that the upper management at Stanley is making more now than ever & that's what it's all about. ;)
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:09 pm

samhill wrote:Almost forgot, can you get me any of those $4 Stanley hammers, last one I bought was way over that & it was at cost & no where near the quality of their old Made in the USA tools. I would also venture to say that the upper management at Stanley is making more now than ever & that's what it's all about. ;)

I mentioned pliers not hammers. There are 12 hammers in the nail hammer line and I would assume quality would be reflected in price. Why do you wear out hammers? I still have my fathers. You hit the nail with the flat side.

Your question implies that if Stanley continued production in CT. they would be just fine. I doubt that when I see a whole set of Stanley screwdrivers for what one used to cost. With competition from Harbor Freight and others they had to compete or die. I don't know what the management makes or even if the company is doing well, but I don't assume as you do that they are probably grossly over paid. Maybe they are and if so the market will correct that too, if allowed to. The problem is liberal interference in markets, not just in regulation which is needed ,but in outright distortion with programs like helping people to buy homes or students to pay tuition. These things are like putting blood in the water around sharks.The sharks on Wall St. and in education can smell an idiot from a mile away, and the same thing is still going on with health care.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: And yet again, another new Executive Order

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:41 pm

samhill wrote: he said screw them but he darn near ended up losing his dad's business & I'm fairly sure it's gone now.


And this is what makes smart companies "do the right thing".

Rolls-Royce's don't grow on trees. CEO's need to understand who butters their bread.

That said, I don't think it's the role of government to force them to do anything. D.C. needs to learn who has the butter as well.

The only difference between private entities and the government is who retains a monopoly on violence.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice