Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: DePippo79 On: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:32 pm

Looks great! Winter is coming. 40 degrees again tonight. I'm glad I listened to the members on this sight about the whole s/s liner thing. More money to buy coal.
DePippo79
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak 40, Stanley Argand No. 30, Glenwood Modern Oak 114, Stanley Argand No. 20 missing parts.
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite. Stove and nut size.
Other Heating: Oil hot water.

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:25 pm

I got the pipe in today and im just waiting to catch my son home to help me get the stove in :mad: the damb stove is sitting on the farmers porch so I cant take it in and I cant take it off deck to fire it outside either :taz: Im at a freeeking stand still!
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:32 am

Is thier a special fastener to clasp the pipe fast to the durarock? Im kinda watchin this close, I have a feeling I may be tackling something like this next year.
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Anthracite


Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:20 am

anthony7812 wrote:Is thier a special fastener to clasp the pipe fast to the durarock? Im kinda watchin this close, I have a feeling I may be tackling something like this next year.


That's a very good thought, but its not needed here... Ideally if I was concerned I would have a metal bracket above the durarock that is tied to the inside brick of the fireplace that would secure the black pipe prior to installing the durarock. But once this pipe is secured to the flu collar on the 404 it is more solid and stiff than anything (it almost becomes "one with the stove"), the 404 has a removable baffle so when cleaning I never have to remove the stove or disconnect the pipe to clean it as I wish.

So currently I have this pipe assembly put together and it can slide up and down within my durarock (its sitting on a 5 gallon bucket at the height of the stove flu awaiting my son to help me), it has some play forward and back, left and right, up and down to make install of the stove easy peazy!... but make no mistake, once I tie it to the stove it wont budge unless I unscrew it from the flu collar of the stove (and I have a 7' strait run up to make sure it gets into the terra cotta flu above the "shelf area" but in reality I could have just done a 3' run up and it would work fine). I will also inject a bead of cement around the pipe at the durarock after the stove is installed (its such a tight fit I don't really need to but I will anyways because I wont have to replace it, EVER...if you know what I mean ;) !). You can make this fit so tight it will actually hold the pipe from sliding up/down to some degree.

If you have a similar set up and a square or round 8" terra cotta flu above, I've in the past used a decorative flange and tacked it to the top section which you can then force up into the terra cotta (these decorative flanges are so thin and flipsy it will bend as needed when your forcing it up and this helps keep the pipe hanging as well as keeping it centered inside the terra cotta).... I was to cheap to spend the $10.00 on one but if I had one I would have done this as well :lol:
Attachments
pipe waiting for stove.JPG
(116.92 KiB) Viewed 34 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]43770[/nepathumb]
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: ramblerboy2 On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:26 pm

This is basically the same project/setup I am planning to do soon to get my Surdiac hooked up. I have a small fireplace in the rear parlor of my 1892 home; the damper is truly odd, it is a slotted piece with another piece which slides to open the slots; I assume this was only ever used for ventilation and not for any type of fire, or maybe originally there was a thimble in the chimney breast to accommodate a stove and the slotted damper could help control the draft in the flue? At any rate, I hope to get it out of there and then figure out how to hook up the stove. Unfortunately, I will need a liner. The mason had to rebuild the chimney from the roofline up (badly deteriorated, all the bricks were totally loose) and when he did he noticed that the brickwork above this fireplace which formed the connection from the fireplace to the flue had all collapsed, so basically my three flue chimney is combined in that location. Not sure if this makes any sense. None of the flues are currently in use. So some kind of liner will be necessary. I'd planned to get the stove hooked up for this winter but totally no funds on hand to get this project pulled together.
ramblerboy2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac MCK 508
Other Heating: Embassy Ambassador BMS natural gas boiler

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:18 pm

ramblerboy2 wrote:This is basically the same project/setup I am planning to do soon to get my Surdiac hooked up. I have a small fireplace in the rear parlor of my 1892 home; the damper is truly odd, it is a slotted piece with another piece which slides to open the slots; I assume this was only ever used for ventilation and not for any type of fire, or maybe originally there was a thimble in the chimney breast to accommodate a stove and the slotted damper could help control the draft in the flue? At any rate, I hope to get it out of there and then figure out how to hook up the stove. Unfortunately, I will need a liner. The mason had to rebuild the chimney from the roofline up (badly deteriorated, all the bricks were totally loose) and when he did he noticed that the brickwork above this fireplace which formed the connection from the fireplace to the flue had all collapsed, so basically my three flue chimney is combined in that location. Not sure if this makes any sense. None of the flues are currently in use. So some kind of liner will be necessary. I'd planned to get the stove hooked up for this winter but totally no funds on hand to get this project pulled together.


sounds like a plan, I had hoped people seeing this thread with photo's would give some simple ideas and courage for others in similar circumstances (If you ever asked a chimney/fireplace shop if you can remove a built in damper or replace a built in damper like that, they would tell you the chimney would have to come down or to leave it and take the plate only out and get a top side damper with long ass chain dropped down to the firebox area :lol: ) Give me a hammer and few sticks of steel and whooopie "done" :dancing:

In your case with no liner I guess you should get some quotes for a balloon liner to be poured in (how much room do you have in that flu going to this fireplace? diameter is important because you would want to make sure you can maintain at least 6" preferably 8" after the balloon is poured) OR get quotes for a stainless liner (I cringe even saying that for coal use thought :cry: )
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: ramblerboy2 On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:18 pm

Yeah, I discussed terra cotta with the mason but it would require tearing more of the chimney down; I think stainless is the only practical solution. Interestingly I've heard of them failing after just a few years and I've heard of others lasting for decades (with coal). If I get 10 years out of it I think I can deal with it.

This chimney has three flues, each unlined and roughly 7x8; so not much room to mess around.

The Surdiac uses a 5 inch flue; I'm thinking that a 5 inch liner will help me get better draft in this chimney, which is located on an outside wall and the total run from the stove to the top is about 17 feet; seems a little on the short side.
ramblerboy2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac MCK 508
Other Heating: Embassy Ambassador BMS natural gas boiler

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:34 pm

ramblerboy2 wrote:Yeah, I discussed terra cotta with the mason but it would require tearing more of the chimney down; I think stainless is the only practical solution. Interestingly I've heard of them failing after just a few years and I've heard of others lasting for decades (with coal). If I get 10 years out of it I think I can deal with it.

This chimney has three flues, each unlined and roughly 7x8; so not much room to mess around.

The Surdiac uses a 5 inch flue; I'm thinking that a 5 inch liner will help me get better draft in this chimney, which is located on an outside wall and the total run from the stove to the top is about 17 feet; seems a little on the short side.


I have not read this entire thread but , and I am no expert on this but from what I have learned from members here is that coal is tough on stainless no matter what, just saying, give it lots of thought before you make a move, good luck..

Edit to ADD.. I would think 17 feet is fine, what do others say?
grumpy
 

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: ramblerboy2 On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:52 pm

My hope is that when I get the damper out I will have a better view of whatever is going on in my chimney and may be able to see what can be done. Maybe if the run is straight and the damage not too extensive we can line with a clay liner. Fingers crossed.
ramblerboy2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac MCK 508
Other Heating: Embassy Ambassador BMS natural gas boiler

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: dcrane On: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:15 am

ramblerboy2 wrote:My hope is that when I get the damper out I will have a better view of whatever is going on in my chimney and may be able to see what can be done. Maybe if the run is straight and the damage not too extensive we can line with a clay liner. Fingers crossed.




Here is a way to attempt if its a strait run and the inside is pretty clean


Here is another method


The next method is the one I was referring to (I call it a balloon... they make it sound a lot more complicated but its not and several companies and variations do this)


final note: I think most of us would recommend avoiding a stainless liner for coal burning at ANY & ALL costs, but the so called experts including building inspectors love them! (they are WRONG!).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Removing a Built in damper from fireplace

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:38 am

rambler...
dcranes right...stainless would be a last resort (imo)
..im on my 2nd season.(with a ss liner)..and already seeing trouble!
at the time ss was my only option....but im thinking superflu or similar for me next spring.
...if its ur only option...u could go with 5 inch insulated liner...which will improve ur draft and should help extend the life of the ss...
17 ft should create plenty of draft...good luck
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace