Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:25 pm

Pacowy wrote:
jpete wrote: Not HIS 4A rights...the thousands of people in Watertown.


I was talking about the people in Watertown.

As for your other commentary, you're always welcome to exercise your First Amendment rights, and come to the Boston Common to rag on LE efforts. Bring a bullhorn so everyone can hear you.

Mike


I've done my public protests. No one gives a damn. They are more than happy to give up their freedom for a little false comfort.

Billions of dollars into "Homeland security" and all Boston proved is that there is no such thing.

But, I am going to get gate raped in a week and a half so we have that going for us, which is nice....
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:27 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:take a real good look here, let this sink in .....


It would help if you could say what your point is. We've already had people trying to let images speak for themselves; different images seem to say different things depending upon what other underlying facts you are assuming.

Mike
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:38 pm

Pacowy wrote:
Black_And_Blue wrote:take a real good look here, let this sink in .....


It would help if you could say what your point is. We've already had people trying to let images speak for themselves; different images seem to say different things depending upon what other underlying facts you are assuming.

Mike


stare at it all night if you have to :

"Practice in discovering for oneself teaches one to acquire information in a way that makes that information more readily viable in problem solving"
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:40 pm

YEAH, B&B, what's the point there :? What I'm seeing is a bunch of LEO's trying to find a killer before more citizens become dead or maimed. What do you see?
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:48 pm

Flyer5 wrote:This is the stuff I was referring to. If this doesn't look wrong I don't have words.



WTF? How many people were in that house? I didn't watch the whole thing but did they ever allow the people back in?

If I were one of those who had my house searched like that I'd be looking to move.
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:57 pm

jpete wrote:I've done my public protests. No one gives a damn. They are more than happy to give up their freedom for a little false comfort.

Billions of dollars into "Homeland security" and all Boston proved is that there is no such thing.

But, I am going to get gate raped in a week and a half so we have that going for us, which is nice....


I'd be the first to agree with you if you're saying a lot of the initial knee-jerk reaction to 9/11 infringed unnecessarily on freedoms. I don't think there has ever been absolute security against the actions of extremists. For better or worse, the world has become a "smaller" and more integrated place, and there's no shortage of extremists out there, so having to put some more effort into security unfortunately seems to be a necessary part of the picture. All of the $ may not have been well spent, but I'm OK with the idea that some of the bigger threats have been averted. The fact that two guys with an agenda could stay under the radar doesn't undo that.

I still don't buy your theory that this week's events reflect poorly on law enforcement activities and that the whole thing could have been solved by a lone wolf civilian. Without LE the guy is planning the next bombing instead of bleeding in a boat. Two bombs were set off in city crowds, and less than 5 days later the perpetrators had been identified and apprehended. I'm ok with that performance and I hope RI never has a chance to show it can do better.

Mike
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:00 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote: stare at it all night if you have to


I don't have to. If you don't have a point just admit it and if you do just say it. Your inability or unwillingness to communicate is not my problem.

Mike
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:01 pm

You danced all around the issue.

The issue is if an "emergency" means giving up your rights, do we actually have rights?

I was under the impression one had to be tried and convicted of a crime before you lost your rights.

But what the last week proved is that a MILLION people lost them instantly upon the actions of two.

It's a scary precedent we just set and things only get worse from here.
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:22 pm

jpete wrote:You danced all around the issue.

The issue is if an "emergency" means giving up your rights, do we actually have rights?

I was under the impression one had to be tried and convicted of a crime before you lost your rights.

But what the last week proved is that a MILLION people lost them instantly upon the actions of two.

It's a scary precedent we just set and things only get worse from here.


The facade of public benefit aside, all of the draconian laws passed since 9/11 are ultimately for the direct preservation of and further empowerment of the state. The publics only benefit in our present society comes from their being willing wards of the state. Once upon a time brief and objective and thereby specific law determined innocence or guilt. Now vague and subjective and miles long law serves this purpose. Subjective law requires (or rather, demands) willing subjects.
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:24 pm

I'm probably missing something, but I've heard no real complaints from any Watertown people. Most that I've heard was they were real grateful that what was done with real good results, was done in a timely fashion with the help of local residents. Not from a bunch of whiners questioning Constitutionality issues. But from concerned LOCAL residents wanting the whole thing done.
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:33 pm

freetown fred wrote:I'm probably missing something, but I've heard no real complaints from any Watertown people. Most that I've heard was they were real grateful that what was done with real good results, was done in a timely fashion with the help of local residents. Not from a bunch of whiners questioning Constitutionality issues. But from concerned LOCAL residents wanting the whole thing done.


Fred, I agree, but would this tragic event have been any different in any way, shape, or form, if we had not gone down the road of turning what were once thought to be the inalienable rights of citizens into mere privileges hailing from the state, and then revoking them? What benefit has giving up liberty to achieve security actually brought to us? Does the end justify the means?
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:43 pm

I'm talking about the here & now regarding one particular incident. I'm not real big on shoulda, coulda, woulda's. That being said, people will interpret those sad days actions by all parties involved in any way they wish. I'm also not into making mountains out of molehills. People have been over-reacting to nonsensical crap for eons--ie: the gun law fiasco by the Feds--what happened there??? PS--I believe the END in this instance resulted in the capture of one real sick psycho--I personaly feel that all the actions were justified in this particular situation.
lsayre wrote:
freetown fred wrote:I'm probably missing something, but I've heard no real complaints from any Watertown people. Most that I've heard was they were real grateful that what was done with real good results, was done in a timely fashion with the help of local residents. Not from a bunch of whiners questioning Constitutionality issues. But from concerned LOCAL residents wanting the whole thing done.


Fred, I agree, but would this tragic event have been any different in any way, shape, or form, if we had not gone down the road of turning what were once thought to be the inalienable rights of citizens into mere privileges hailing from the state, and then revoking them? What benefit has giving up liberty to achieve security actually brought to us? Does the end justify the means?
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:54 pm

Rwalker wrote:I am torn over this. Of course, I would have complied with a search as it is ridiculous to make a situation worse because a SWAT team wants to search your house, and everyone around you, without a warrant. However, I think the people in the effected area were at least watching TV or had internet access and knew exactly what was going on. They knew they were searching house to house, and they were instructed keep their doors locked and only open them for LEO. I would have kept an eye out for them, and as they came to my house I would have instructed my family to go out the door, one at a time, with their hands on their heads. I don't think they were busting people for anything they shouldn't have had and it looked like the searches were quick and over with. From the sounds of things, it was almost a Marshal Law situation, so I wonder if they even technically need a warrant to search door to door? It isn't like they were just searching, they had an agenda and a person they were looking for. I am sure they overlooked a lot of "illegal" things because they had their sights on the bigger picture. I didn't see any video of home owners being arrested...did anyone else?

On the other hand, I don't want our government thinking they can just use an emergency, real or fabricated, to justify searching my house without a warrant. It also shows you just how quick the government can take over an area and how most will comply with all orders given...



This is my concern. I guess if I was asked I would possibly do the same, but my real fear is. Does this just set precedence for next time? I applaud the police in catching this moron. But on the other hand. It just seems like we keep giving up freedoms for security as the saying goes. I doubt most people will say no, when you have 30-40 armed police standing on your porch. I guess I am unsure how I feel. But this whole thing does need to be questioned and looked at. If all found to be good so be it, but it needs the review.
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:59 pm

There is no "woulda, coulda, shoulda."

There only is what actually happened. And what happened was the government locked down about a million people.

And for what? So ONE person who ISN'T a law enforcement officer could locate the suspect OUTSIDE the search area.

In fact, I think it is YOU fred who is practicing "woulda, coulda, shoulda" by suggesting that the ONLY way to find this suspect was to violate the rights of a million people.
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Re: Explosions in Boston at finish line of marathon w injuries

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:08 pm

jpete wrote:There is no "woulda, coulda, shoulda."

There only is what actually happened. And what happened was the government locked down about a million people.

And for what? So ONE person who ISN'T a law enforcement officer could locate the suspect OUTSIDE the search area.


And lets not forget that he located the suspect only after the lock-down was lifted.
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