Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: smith10210 On: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:36 pm

Well ive decided to go back to coal its been two years since i sold my Leisure Line Pioneer and 2 years of high propane prices. Im going with a hand fired because of the electricity issue(power outages happen here to often) and the noise of multiple fans running on a stoker and the option of burning some wood maybe in late fall than switch to coal. I'll be heating around 1300 square feet 2 story home. I have it narrowed down to a left over Hitzer 50-93/blower that has been on a crate stored haven't seen it yet for $1440.00 cash or a new 50-93 for around $1600/blower. I can get a D.C 1500 shipped for around $1520. I really want the D.C 1600 but its around $1750 shipped i rather have the extra BTU's but not sure if it will be overkill.
smith10210
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:19 pm

Me thinks you'll be real happy with the 50-93
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: oliver power On: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:04 pm

freetown fred wrote:Me thinks you'll be real happy with the 50-93

I agree with Fred. The 50-93 is a proven winner.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:18 am

Both of these are massive beasts for living room coal burning, both have very broad wide open coal beds, both use flat thick store bought fireplace brick. If the choice is only these two then stick with the Hitzer. A good manual coal burner should not require a hopper (it begets you nothing but risk and having a large square beast in your living room floor). a good manual coal burner should not have the coal spread out across a football field to burn it, a good manual coal burner will save you 50% of the amount of coal your "plowing through" all winter on your big football field (this means less space to store coal, less money to buy coal, less broken backs moving coal, etc.)

your going to have 100 people argue these points and 100 others who will explain how perfect their DC or Hitzer is and that it does not burn 2x the coal of Chubby or a Glenwood, I have no interest in making a thread of arguments about stove design (I only offer you the insight of 200 years worth of our grandfathers experience in Coal burning). You don't see William cutting a big hole into the top of his Glenwood to mount a 50lb (non-airtite) hopper do you (their is a reason for that... he knows he is going to have to tend his stove each day for 4 minutes "with or without" a hopper).

Hope this gives some food for thought at least Nice to see more people dropping all the gadgetry, electronics, motors and fans and getting back to the basics of simply saving money!
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:26 am

I would not trade the hopper concept on my Hitzer for all the base burners in the world. It IS airtight, takes 5 minutes worth of tending every 12 hrs in the dead of winter. Every 24 hrs or so in spring & fall. I have probably used my blower 6 times in the past 6 seasons more just to keep it self lubed then anything else. Like any stove, there is a learning curve that I learned on this FORUM--thanx Oliver Power:)--
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:43 am

Even some of the fancy base-burners came with a "magazine" from the factory...whether you use it or not is user preference. The hopper and bi-metallic thermostat on the Hitzer allows it to provide very consistent heat output between shakedowns. Out of the two stoves you mentioned the Hitzer would be my choice, but only because I owned one before and it was a good experience.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:39 am

freetown fred wrote:I would not trade the hopper concept on my Hitzer for all the base burners in the world. It IS airtight, takes 5 minutes worth of tending every 12 hrs in the dead of winter. Every 24 hrs or so in spring & fall. I have probably used my blower 6 times in the past 6 seasons more just to keep it self lubed then anything else. Like any stove, there is a learning curve that I learned on this FORUM--thanx Oliver Power:)--


Haaa! I knew that wouldent take long :P You tend your stove everyday yes indeed (you would be giving the same tend time if you did not have that hopper), the magazine on a baseburner is inside the stove itself and functions as better option to "banking" the coal toward the rear... here is a statement from your manual,

"Keep your hopper full. Should your hopper run empty add coal very slowly so you will not choke out the fire. It is best to fill the hopper before it’s completely empty. Once or so a week, as you see some dead ash building up along the sides, take a steel poker or steel rod and poke down that dead ash before you shake the grates. This buildup happens because the ash under the hopper empties much faster because of the weight of the coal on top. In order for the sides to keep up without some help you would have to shake a lot of coal into the ash pan under the hopper"

Now.... I'm not going to argue some of these finer points and why you don't want your hopper to empty (i assure you if the magazine in a base burner emptied it would have zero consequence to the safety and operation of the stove, do that on yours and you will learn the meaning of non-airtite pretty fast), if you cant let the hopper ever empty or get low I just dont see the point (but thats me, I know you love you your stove and i respect that)

when the manual refers to dead spots this is more from the square cornered football field then the hopper (but I'm not about to argue that either)... they are all wonderful stoves I'm sure and each has their pluses and minuses (I just wanted to allow the poster to hear a varying opinion from someone who is not going to say everything is "roses". The one point that cant be denied is the amount of coal both these examples given will burn through to achieve their BTU ratings :shock:

If you have a 4000 sq' house to plop one of these into the center of your living room like Fred then maybe this is a great choice... if you have 1200 sq' home and you don't want to give up your only living room then maybe looking into some other options is wise (just looking at Fred's avatar, the sq.ft. stamp of his set up is the size of my living room :shock: and he still doesn't even come close to meeting proper set backs for that unit... if he did his living room would be gone!)

again... Fred knows I love him! Im just playing a lil' devil's advocate :lol:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:50 am

A magazine or hopper has a very functional effect of the burning of coal..
The coal stacked up in the magazine is warmed by the fire, and is up to temperature, just below combustion temp when the stove is shook down,
dropping the ash and bring the fresh but hot coal onto the firebed.

Many hand feed coal burners who monitor their stove's heat output see a big drop in stove temps when the fresh charge of cool or cold coal is added to the fire. It may take up to an hour to get the stove back to the desired operating temperature.

Coal stored in a hopper or magazine also has a chance to out-gas much of the volitiles so the potential for 'puff-backs' are minimized if the magazine is kept full. Dumping a hod or two of fresh cool coal on a hot fire is a sure recipe for a puffback. The preheating effect of a hopper or magazine eliminates this problem.

For many people, if they burned a handfed stove without a hopper or magazine, their stove would be out many times a year when they got home late, or the fire would be so puny that it would take hours to nurse it back to a full fire.. The hopper full of coal greatly extends the burn time of the handfed stoves. Not everyone shakes every 12 hours, many people with a hopper fed stove can shake and add coal just once a day. depending on the rate of coa burning and the ash characteristics of their coal.

Hoppers and magazines are a great addition to a stove, easy top feed instead of trying to toss in the last shovel-full of coal to get that deep fire needed, and no coal popping and spitting in your face or shooting embers out the open doors into your eyes, face, or your room..

The antique base heaters and base burners had a magazine for all the above reasons.. but it was an option, and was not on the less expensive stoves..
Both my Art Garland and Keystone 11 have a magazine to feed the fire.

My personal opinion is that for a modern stove, thermostatic controlled air damper and hopper are the best stove for trouble free burning.

The size of a stove is what determines it's heat output.. a little baseburner with a 10" firepot doesn't make as much heat as a big one with a 14" firepot, and I will say that there are a lot of modern stoves that take up a LOT less 'acreage' than my huge art Garland,, I have a Harman TLC-2000 out in the barn in storage, and it is much smaller than my bi g baseheater..

My Art Garland is 28" deep and that's without the stove pipe elbow on the back, and 29" wide, The Hitzer 5093 is only 21" deep not including the back pipe elbow, and 30" wide,, so my art Garland takes up about 30% more 'acreage' in a living space. And the Art Garland is tall, over 5 feet tall, the Hitzer is only 35" tall, all in all a much less imposing appliance in the living room.. My Art Garland looks like 'Robby the Robot from 'Lost in Space'.. but with the robot in 'Drag'.. :lol:

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:15 am

LsFarm wrote:A magazine or hopper has a very functional effect of the burning of coal..
The coal stacked up in the magazine is warmed by the fire, and is up to temperature, just below combustion temp when the stove is shook down,
dropping the ash and bring the fresh but hot coal onto the firebed.

Many hand feed coal burners who monitor their stove's heat output see a big drop in stove temps when the fresh charge of cool or cold coal is added to the fire. It may take up to an hour to get the stove back to the desired operating temperature.

Coal stored in a hopper or magazine also has a chance to out-gas much of the volitiles so the potential for 'puff-backs' are minimized if the magazine is kept full. Dumping a hod or two of fresh cool coal on a hot fire is a sure recipe for a puffback. The preheating effect of a hopper or magazine eliminates this problem.

For many people, if they burned a handfed stove without a hopper or magazine, their stove would be out many times a year when they got home late, or the fire would be so puny that it would take hours to nurse it back to a full fire.. The hopper full of coal greatly extends the burn time of the handfed stoves. Not everyone shakes every 12 hours, many people with a hopper fed stove can shake and add coal just once a day. depending on the rate of coa burning and the ash characteristics of their coal.

Hoppers and magazines are a great addition to a stove, easy top feed instead of trying to toss in the last shovel-full of coal to get that deep fire needed, and no coal popping and spitting in your face or shooting embers out the open doors into your eyes, face, or your room..

The antique base heaters and base burners had a magazine for all the above reasons.. but it was an option, and was not on the less expensive stoves..
Both my Art Garland and Keystone 11 have a magazine to feed the fire.

My personal opinion is that for a modern stove, thermostatic controlled air damper and hopper are the best stove for trouble free burning.

The size of a stove is what determines it's heat output.. a little baseburner with a 10" firepot doesn't make as much heat as a big one with a 14" firepot, and I will say that there are a lot of modern stoves that take up a LOT less 'acreage' than my huge art Garland,, I have a Harman TLC-2000 out in the barn in storage, and it is much smaller than my bi g baseheater..

My Art Garland is 28" deep and that's without the stove pipe elbow on the back, and 29" wide, The Hitzer 5093 is only 21" deep not including the back pipe elbow, and 30" wide,, so my art Garland takes up about 30% more 'acreage' in a living space. And the Art Garland is tall, over 5 feet tall, the Hitzer is only 35" tall, all in all a much less imposing appliance in the living room.. My Art Garland looks like 'Robby the Robot from 'Lost in Space'.. but with the robot in 'Drag'.. :lol:

Greg L

I had to laugh about the robot correlation as I always thought some of the old stoves looked like the robot on the Jetsons...I think here name was Rosie.
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:33 am

Good points to be sure Greg... Im not sure the modern hopper feeds get anywhere near hot enough to be expelling volatiles and if they did I would not be comfortable with those volatiles being in my living room as opposed to inside the combustion chamber... I do suppose if your stove is in the basement (not conveniently in the living room) then folks would not mind having the BIG SQUARE BEAST because its not taking up your entire living room, If you do take advantage of only tending it once a day instead of twice your still at the same disadvantage when you do tend it of the coal bed tapering down and the time it takes for it to get back up to temp (SO... I'm not sure that's an advantage unless your tending it every 18-19 hours to make sure the hopper is never less then half full to obtain all these wonderful advantages your referring to)... If you have to tend each 19 hours that is more of a hassle then simply doing the twice per day 2 minute tend (once in the morning, once at night) My clock does not run on 19 hour intervals to gain these advantages.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: smith10210 On: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:15 pm

I think im going for the Hitzer because i can get a left over for $1400 and i should have the cash in a few weeks and its local. I wish i would have known more about hand-fired stoves before i bought and sold my stoker but lesson learned. I have two propane bills left to pay than once fall/winter comes this year i will only have to get my propane filed twice the whole heating season can't wait :D . I appreciate the info from everyone and will post pics once i get it installed.
smith10210
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: chester On: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:45 pm

Smith ,Great choice that you will never regret. Common sense and the saying K.I.S.S." Keep it simple"Always work best. :rambo2:
chester
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut/stove
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: dlj On: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:54 pm

dcrane wrote:Good points to be sure Greg... Im not sure the modern hopper feeds get anywhere near hot enough to be expelling volatiles and if they did I would not be comfortable with those volatiles being in my living room as opposed to inside the combustion chamber... I do suppose if your stove is in the basement (not conveniently in the living room) then folks would not mind having the BIG SQUARE BEAST because its not taking up your entire living room, If you do take advantage of only tending it once a day instead of twice your still at the same disadvantage when you do tend it of the coal bed tapering down and the time it takes for it to get back up to temp (SO... I'm not sure that's an advantage unless your tending it every 18-19 hours to make sure the hopper is never less then half full to obtain all these wonderful advantages your referring to)... If you have to tend each 19 hours that is more of a hassle then simply doing the twice per day 2 minute tend (once in the morning, once at night) My clock does not run on 19 hour intervals to gain these advantages.


The magazine in the old stoves do not expel volatiles into the living space at all. They all go up the chimney with the exhaust gases from the fire. The coal feed in my VC also does not expel gases into the living space. The entire load of coal in the magazine of both these stoves is inside the firebox preheating the coal.

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:10 pm

dlj wrote:
dcrane wrote:Good points to be sure Greg... Im not sure the modern hopper feeds get anywhere near hot enough to be expelling volatiles and if they did I would not be comfortable with those volatiles being in my living room as opposed to inside the combustion chamber... I do suppose if your stove is in the basement (not conveniently in the living room) then folks would not mind having the BIG SQUARE BEAST because its not taking up your entire living room, If you do take advantage of only tending it once a day instead of twice your still at the same disadvantage when you do tend it of the coal bed tapering down and the time it takes for it to get back up to temp (SO... I'm not sure that's an advantage unless your tending it every 18-19 hours to make sure the hopper is never less then half full to obtain all these wonderful advantages your referring to)... If you have to tend each 19 hours that is more of a hassle then simply doing the twice per day 2 minute tend (once in the morning, once at night) My clock does not run on 19 hour intervals to gain these advantages.


The magazine in the old stoves do not expel volatiles into the living space at all. They all go up the chimney with the exhaust gases from the fire. The coal feed in my VC also does not expel gases into the living space. The entire load of coal in the magazine of both these stoves is inside the firebox preheating the coal.

dj


Yes sir... the VC had an interior hopper so that is one example that is similar to a baseburner magazine (modern stoves have their hoppers outside the combustion chamber so this preheating off the volitales is questionable). You must have an eighties VC Vig with their coal kit and optional hopper with that chain linkage top? :lol:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Need advice Hitzer/D.C stove

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:15 pm

dcrane wrote: (modern stoves have their hoppers outside the combustion chamber


I think you are confusing this with a stoker. Hand fed stoves modern or antique have the hopper within the stove.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Visit Hitzer Stoves