Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

Have your health care rates gone up under The Affordable Health Care Act (Obamacare)?

yes
33
54%
no
19
31%
no idea
9
15%
don't care
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 61

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:24 pm

lsayre wrote:Can and will the USA continue to fabricate endless legal tender currency from thin air?

Yes they will as long as adding zeros is so easy until they run out of zeros. What other way can the monstrous debt be handled that is politically possible?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:13 pm

franco b wrote:
lsayre wrote:Can and will the USA continue to fabricate endless legal tender currency from thin air?

Yes they will as long as adding zeros is so easy until they run out of zeros. What other way can the monstrous debt be handled that is politically possible?


Margaret Thatcher figured out that the trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money, but she would never have imagined a world that tolerates one of its member nations fabricating currency endlessly from thin air, and then forcing all other nations to accept it at face value as if it honestly represents real wealth. Only our military might, the petrodollar, international subversion, bribery, and the outright overthrow of governments can keep our charade going. Every other nation on earth that has taken our route of phoney currency expansion has had its currency and economy collapse to nothingness. None of them have had our military clout. We must and will kill and subvert and overthrow nations to sustain the dollar (and the petrodollar) until the music inevitably stops. The only questions remaining are: When and how will the music stop?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:40 pm

lsayre wrote:
franco b wrote:
lsayre wrote:Can and will the USA continue to fabricate endless legal tender currency from thin air?

Yes they will as long as adding zeros is so easy until they run out of zeros. What other way can the monstrous debt be handled that is politically possible?


Margaret Thatcher figured out that the trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money, but she would never have imagined a world that tolerates one of its member nations fabricating currency endlessly from thin air, and then forcing all other nations to accept it at face value as if it honestly represents real wealth. Only our military might, the petrodollar, international subversion, bribery, and the outright overthrow of governments can keep our charade going. Every other nation on earth that has taken our route of phoney currency expansion has had its currency and economy collapse to nothingness. None of them have had our military clout. We must and will kill and subvert and overthrow nations to sustain the dollar (and the petrodollar) until the music inevitably stops. The only questions remaining are: When and how will the music stop?

Aren't you overlooking the fact that the rest of the nations are doing it too? Things stay relative as the worlds ship sinks.

A thought from Bill Bonner:
So, opponents say the feds “failed.”

But they miss the point. All political activity is aimed at: (1) gaining power, (2) holding onto power and (3) using power to transfer wealth, status and more power to the insiders.

It doesn’t matter whether you call it “job creation” or “foreign aid.” The real purpose is always the same – even when many of the insiders themselves don’t realize it.

Bitcoin represents a threat to the feds’ ability to rip people off by manipulating the value of the currency.

This “exorbitant privilege,” as de Gaulle called it, is worth trillions of dollars. It is essential to many other policies and pretensions – including managing interest rates, controlling the money supply, and controlling inflation. (The feds’ massaging of the CPI allows them to manipulate their costs – Social Security, debt service costs and so forth – as well as the value of money itself.)

Think they’re going to give that up to a bunch of internet geeks? Not a chance!

Have the feds failed?

Nope… They have been the most successful group on the planet.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea


Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:17 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:So why are you a proponent of Obamacare?

I'm not, really. Just in favor of substantial reform in healthcare and in healthcare insurance, for which the need has been great and growing for several decades. Obamacare seems to be the ONLY step that has been taken. Imperfect as it may be, it is a step in the right general direction, and without it NOTHING would yet have been done. Now it needs to be cleaned up. Much of the repeal effort is dishonest, its intent being only to discredit Obama and shift power to the critics. If the critics would say, "These provisions are good, these others are not, let's try to make it right", then obviously they would be speaking the truth and I would be happy to support them. But since the critics won't even acknowledge the obvious, that the old system was not working, then they are NOT speaking the truth and they know it.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:32 pm

rberq wrote: it is a step in the right general direction,


Absolutely NOT!

When has government involvement EVER made ANYTHING cheaper or better?

This is the same organization that spends $400 for toilet seats and $800 for hammers.

Health insurance is going to be so UNaffordable in a couple years, people will be BEGGING the government to take it over and at that point, the trap is sprung. For of course, that's what the government wanted all along, they just couldn't make the people agree.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:10 pm

I'm not saying that the Gov. doesn't or ever has overpaid for things but as always the facts seem to get distorted. You also have to put into the mix that the Gov. awards contracts to the contractors that lobby the most & lets just say put that lobbying cost into their pricing. http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Political_snippets
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: gaw On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:21 pm

What would YOU be willing to pay for a tool capable of driving any size or type of nail without the need for compressed air, electricity, battery or fuel cartridge, has no moving parts and has an expected useful life of 50 years or more.
gaw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice from Schuylkill County

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:38 pm

gaw wrote:What would YOU be willing to pay for a tool capable of driving any size or type of nail without the need for compressed air, electricity, battery or fuel cartridge, has no moving parts and has an expected useful life of 50 years or more.



gaw

...you should start marketing for Estwing... !! :D
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:17 pm

gaw wrote:What would YOU be willing to pay for a tool capable of driving any size or type of nail without the need for compressed air, electricity, battery or fuel cartridge, has no moving parts and has an expected useful life of 50 years or more.

:) You make it sound good, but it's dangerous to your health:

John Henry was about three days old
A sitting on his papa's knee
He picked up a hammer and a little piece of steel
Said, "Hammer's gonna be the death of me," Lord, Lord
"Hammer's gonna be the death of me."
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:19 am

rberq wrote:I'm not, really. Just in favor of substantial reform in healthcare and in healthcare insurance, for which the need has been great and growing for several decades. ...the critics won't even acknowledge the obvious, that the old system was not working, then they are NOT speaking the truth and they know it.


This is where we part. I think there are problems in the legacy system (I guess what you now call the "old system") that we have mentioned that are a nuisance but it is not fundamentally flawed. The legacy system only fails to provide a desirable price for an expensive product. That is not a failing of the system, it is a whining of the people who cannot afford the luxury of expensive healthcare. No one who faced a need for basic health care was ever denied treatment at a hospital. But no one has a "right" to any health care, as cruel as it may seem to some. Organizations such as BlueCross-BlueShield were non-profits formed and dedicated to humanitarian aims through a self-serving grass roots communal response, but government mucked up their tax statuses and forced them into being business organizations. Government is most often the problem, not the solution. It isn't even the federal government's job to manage the price or the supply, just establish and monitor the professional performance standards (in my opinion). As for insurance, that is a standard contract. Contracts of that complexity need a state overseer/advocate-of-the-people in my opinion, but nothing more.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:16 am

M&G, I don't think the Gov. had any other choice when it comes to things like BC/BS & the like, they themselves branched outside the guidelines of 501tax exempt & not-for-profit, once you start investing in other things you can no longer keep those statuses, they are not the same but close & have guidelines. IMO many especially Ins. giants got away from paying taxes for far too long.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:39 am

The most vocal critics of the ACA decry that the govt has no business being in the healthcare business. And they are absolutely correct! However they,IMO, are wrong in saying that this act deepens the govt.'s involvement, rather it is an attempt to get the population to take responsibility for there own care. Currently everybody has healthcare, for most it's likely given in an employer benefit package or one can afford to purchase a policy in the market, and everybody else in covered under medicaid when worse comes to worst and that's govt. healthcare. To get things to a place that makes sense this act forces everybody to buy a policy and if you cant afford one we'll help you buy a private policy and thereby get you off the medicaid roll . By eliminating the preexisting condition clause and other measures the govt is merely trying to reign in the big ins. co.'s by saying if your gonna write ins policies then this is what your gonna cover. Might sound heavy handed but no one says that they have to stay in the health ins. business; don't like it ,get out, simple!
Rest assured that some co. will be along to make money selling policies and that is a free market!!! ;)
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:23 pm

waldo lemieux wrote:The most vocal critics of the ACA decry that the govt has no business being in the healthcare business. And they are absolutely correct! However they,IMO, are wrong in saying that this act deepens the govt.'s involvement, rather it is an attempt to get the population to take responsibility for there own care.


This sounds a lot like massive government intrusion and involvement to me.

waldo lemieux wrote:By eliminating the preexisting condition clause and other measures the govt is merely trying to reign in the big ins. co.'s by saying if your gonna write ins policies then this is what your gonna cover. Might sound heavy handed but no one says that they have to stay in the health ins. business; don't like it ,get out, simple!
Rest assured that some co. will be along to make money selling policies and that is a free market!!! ;)


This also sounds like massive government involvement and meddling. There is absolutely no free market here. Only the fusion of industry (insurance companies) and state (Federal Gov.), whereby companies are nominally owned and operated by individuals or stockholders, but they must dance to the tune of their political masters, which by definition is Fascism.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:22 pm

...larry
if the government mandates you to have insurance ( and for sake of argument- let's leave Obamacare out of this for now)
... who regulates or oversees the insurance company and their practices?
... I'm totally for free enterprise- TOTALLY

.. HOWEVER... I don't feel certain businesses should have their cake and eat it too
I live in New York.... I can't drive my vehicle without insurance( I could just not legally)..
why?.. because it is the law.. sure I could go around shop out rates and we all do... but my point is... BY LAW... I am at the mercy of the insurance company
.... look at the companies that provide health insurance
... the CEO of most large companies make tens.... some over a hundred MILLION dollars a year.. ( millions with a M )
... that's one person- and management is huge... all with with incredible salaries-... so rates are always not based on risk...... I think there is a little more to that equation of theirs
... I certainly do not feel that the government should get into the health care business.... and I don't feel they have any right to make someone get health care insurance.... but I certainly do not have any sympathy for the insurance company themselves... they taking huge prem
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:14 pm

In my opinion (based upon the separation of powers) private insurance company fraud (by any shape, form, measure, or scale) is a matter for the courts, and not a matter for the legislative or executive branches of the government.

The answer to who oversees the insurance companies is therefore the court system.

The matter of an insurance mandate (name being here agreeably not essential) is evidence of Fascism as I understand it. It forces the people to capitulate to the whims of the corporations, who in turn must likewise capitualate to the whims of the government. This turns the original intent of the Constitution upside down (by making the government sovereign), and also strips objectivity (objective law and thereby the courts) from the equation and replaces it with the subjective whim of a sovereign state.
Last edited by lsayre on Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)