Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

Have your health care rates gone up under The Affordable Health Care Act (Obamacare)?

yes
33
54%
no
19
31%
no idea
9
15%
don't care
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 61

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:17 pm

The way I see it is that by law hospitals have to treat anyone regardless of ability to pay, we all know that the money for this has to come from somewhere & we all know where. That's why an aspirin & everything else in a hospital gets such a huge markup. Then the same as the insurance industry & don't take my word for it but look it up for yourself & see the salaries that the CEOs & uppers get in the hospitals.
Isayre, is that left up to the Gov. courts or is there some kind of free enterprise court system?
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:27 pm

samhill wrote:The way I see it is that by law hospitals have to treat anyone regardless of ability to pay


This is bad law. The real solution here is (as it was in the past) Charity Hospitals.

samhill wrote: we all know that the money for this has to come from somewhere & we all know where. That's why an aspirin & everything else in a hospital gets such a huge markup. Then the same as the insurance industry & don't take my word for it but look it up for yourself & see the salaries that the CEOs & uppers get in the hospitals.
Isayre, is that left up to the Gov. courts or is there some kind of free enterprise court system?


Bad laws tend to lead to corrupt pricing. A free market is compelled to set whatever price the overall market can bear. Not prices that the overall market can't bear, such as we see today. In a market where the taxpayer ultimately gets stiffed with the bill there is little motivation to charge what the market can bear.

Edited, but only to properly separate my comments from the quotes...
Last edited by lsayre on Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:42 pm

i simply think that most rates are borderline 'price gouging'...
i only think that before the govt forces ppl to enroll in something such as health...that the health care 'system' itself be brought under control a little bit.
.. i understand it is not just carriers.... but also pharmaceuticals hospitals etc....
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:49 pm

Charity Hospitals didn't work out too well but it's always good to see such a caring person that wants to go back to what was not so good in those good old days.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:36 pm

I think there is some truth in most of these posts.

I think Mike and Gerry said it best to point out the line between regulation and management. When regulation turns into management and when that regulation exceeds its purpose of ensuring fair play and favors special interests for less than ideal reasons then we get the mess we are witnessing.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:13 pm

samhill wrote:Charity Hospitals didn't work out too well but it's always good to see such a caring person that wants to go back to what was not so good in those good old days.


The system was working pretty well up until Nixon, Kennedy, and Kaiser Insurance conspired to ruin it.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:14 pm

franco b wrote:I think there is some truth in most of these posts.

I think Mike and Gerry said it best to point out the line between regulation and management. When regulation turns into management and when that regulation exceeds its purpose of ensuring fair play and favors special interests for less than ideal reasons then we get the mess we are witnessing.


Regulation always favors one party over another.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:18 pm

jpete wrote:
franco b wrote:I think there is some truth in most of these posts.

I think Mike and Gerry said it best to point out the line between regulation and management. When regulation turns into management and when that regulation exceeds its purpose of ensuring fair play and favors special interests for less than ideal reasons then we get the mess we are witnessing.


Regulation always favors one party over another.



...Im starting to not believe in parties..

like Reagan said "there is no right or left-its only up or down"
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:44 pm

Rigar wrote:
jpete wrote:
franco b wrote:I think there is some truth in most of these posts.

I think Mike and Gerry said it best to point out the line between regulation and management. When regulation turns into management and when that regulation exceeds its purpose of ensuring fair play and favors special interests for less than ideal reasons then we get the mess we are witnessing.


Regulation always favors one party over another.



...Im starting to not believe in parties..

like Reagan said "there is no right or left-its only up or down"


Good to see some are catching up. The "two parties" haven't believed in parties in quite some time as Bill Clinton's professor from Georgetown University, Carrol Quigley said in his excellent book about the Council on Foreign Relations.

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can ‘throw the rascals out’ at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy.


It used to be the CFR was something only "conspiracy theorists" talked about. Now they have a website. Go take a look at the members and see what party they belong to. Hint: You're not invited to it.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:45 pm

For the record, that book was written in 1975.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:59 pm

jpete wrote:
franco b wrote:I think there is some truth in most of these posts.

I think Mike and Gerry said it best to point out the line between regulation and management. When regulation turns into management and when that regulation exceeds its purpose of ensuring fair play and favors special interests for less than ideal reasons then we get the mess we are witnessing.


Regulation always favors one party over another.

When that is true it is a bad regulation probably arrived at for the wrong reasons, reasons other than to establish honest rules.

How could our sports team possibly operate without regulations or rules as to how the game is played. The game can be changed by such things as favoring the forward pass in football but both teams have the same chance.

There is the same necessity in business. Yes the market will sort things out in time but at what unneeded cost?
franco b
 
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:18 pm

Good analogy Franco but as in sports how many have been caught & punished even during every game there are always penalties to be paid. In the end there are still two teams to once again battle one another. Business is more ruthless if left to run free & after the biggest & most profitable (fairly or not) they can easily buy ref's (so to speak) & gobble up or bankrupt their opponents & if done fair & square that's OK except in the end there is one & that one could :rofl: lower costs to consumers since no competition & lower costs but we all know that's just a fairy tale. :cry: Remember in sports the best team that money can buy doesn't always win. ;)
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:13 pm

I must permit Ayn Rand to speak directly in response to the above. Please look past her Russian accent, and take the time to listen.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer? ... ber_barons
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:37 pm

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:
franco b wrote:I think there is some truth in most of these posts.

I think Mike and Gerry said it best to point out the line between regulation and management. When regulation turns into management and when that regulation exceeds its purpose of ensuring fair play and favors special interests for less than ideal reasons then we get the mess we are witnessing.


Regulation always favors one party over another.

When that is true it is a bad regulation probably arrived at for the wrong reasons, reasons other than to establish honest rules.

How could our sports team possibly operate without regulations or rules as to how the game is played. The game can be changed by such things as favoring the forward pass in football but both teams have the same chance.

There is the same necessity in business. Yes the market will sort things out in time but at what unneeded cost?


The forward pass hindered teams with strong running games.

"The market" will not "sort things out". It merely plays the best game it can within the scope of the rules. Of course some cheat to gain an unfair advantage but in a sport like NASCAR for example where every infraction is met by two new rules, eventually, the game is so burdened with regulation, no one wants to participate. They are losing fans hand over fist.

If regulations were the answer, the Soviet Union would have been the most successful nation on earth.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:08 pm

jpete wrote:The forward pass hindered teams with strong running games.

"The market" will not "sort things out". It merely plays the best game it can within the scope of the rules. Of course some cheat to gain an unfair advantage but in a sport like NASCAR for example where every infraction is met by two new rules, eventually, the game is so burdened with regulation, no one wants to participate. They are losing fans hand over fist.

If regulations were the answer, the Soviet Union would have been the most successful nation on earth.

You are starting to sound like Sam sneering at big business, though I do admire your footwork and tenacity.

You just condemned regulation and the market, so what is left. The market, like the weather will always be, regulated or not.

As far as hindering the running game, the owners of the game decided that was what they wanted. Nascar is doing the same for good or ill.
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