Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

Have your health care rates gone up under The Affordable Health Care Act (Obamacare)?

yes
33
54%
no
19
31%
no idea
9
15%
don't care
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 61

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:44 pm

Lest this thread might be construed to be running adrift of its topic when the subject of NASCAR is being discussed, I will chime in to reveal where there is indeed relevance.

Regarding the looming failure of NASCAR, I must admit that in their zeal to promote close (read in place of "close" here the word FAIR") competition they have (just as jpete suggests) regulated themselves into a hole. I spoke with a NASCAR team manager only a few short years back (at my companies sponsored event in which the team and its cars were at our plant, and we had a cookout with them), and I asked him "In light of NASCAR adopting in essence a 'kit car' series approach, what would it take to change your teams cars over from Ford to Toyota or Chevy?", and his blunt (and I must presume honest) response was "All it would require is changing the decals."

The key here is that in their zeal to bring fairness (err, closeness) to racing (as opposed to free market innovation and true [as in honest] competition) they have destroyed the very concepts of innovation and competition that made NASCAR racing a great sport, and the fans are seeing it for what it is, with that being socialized racing. The same thing that is destroying NASCAR will ultimately destroy medicine and health care. Fairness and equality through socialistic or fascist (with fascism being a form of socialism) rules and regulations bent on achieving fairness are thus much akin to bringing fairness and equality to stock car racing. From this perspective the failure of NASCAR to keep its fan base is actually a valid harbinger of the future of medical fairness, with the looming destruction of medical competition and innovation, and ultimately with a massive failure of the entire medical system.

And one of the primary reasons why NASCAR chose to pursue the path of such socialism (fairness) in racing is that it will control costs and let the little guys in the sport have a better chance to hobnob with the perennial big boys. Again the similarities are quite evident.
Last edited by lsayre on Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:55 pm

Here's one of those other "industrialized nations" with state run health care. It's a disaster for everyone.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/101114.article

THE ITALIAN federation of medical registrars has asked medical schools to halt enrolments for a year to combat a massive surplus of doctors.

Aldo Pagni, the organisation's president, said there were already 80,000 unemployed doctors in Italy, which has the world's highest density of doctors, dentists and specialists.


All due to government regulations.....
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:46 pm

Thanks for the Ann rand piece larry. It was great.
Franco, what do you want? the regulations that kill the sport are inevitable? Regulations confer some special status at the expense of others. In the attempt to "level the playing field". Now where have I heard that? We have fallen prey to exactly what Ann rand describes. There is a false sense to leveling the playing field when the people that are excelling are the best in the game and you are just bringing them down to the wannbe level to make the rest of the people happy. Everyone hates a winner. Boy did I experience that in my small area in sports. Truly free markets allow the people that are the best to rise to the top by their own talent and ambition, not some regulation from "uncle Kennnedy" or something.

Kevin
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:32 pm

Regulations are rules. Building codes are rules as to how a house may be built. There is quite a bit of freedom as to design but structural rules have to be followed as to strength and safety. Many rural areas had no building code and many fine and strong houses were built and also a lot of shoddy construction. By forcing builders to adhere to a code, buyers had a better chance of getting a good house. That does level the playing field by forcing builders of shoddy houses to spend more and compete more fairly with the quality builders. Competition then becomes who can build the best house more efficiently. Things can still get shoddy but less so than before and safety will be higher. It is conceivable that the rules may hinder some new and better methods of construction but these too in time and after revue are accepted. No doubt there are some arbitrary and stupid rules. When I installed boilers and oil burners in NYC. copper sweat fittings were banned.

There are rules and regulations in the use of this forum. Devised by the Mayor for the better enjoyment of all. Would the forum be better without any rules?

Regulations called laws govern our behavior and how we interact with others. No doubt some should be eliminated and others changed and others added but should they be abolished?
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: plumb-r On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:18 am

Politician use regulations to eliminate the competition, for the people lining their pocket. :o
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:53 am

FB

The building code analogy is dead on! Good post, I was beginning to think I was all alone :alone:
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:12 am

The reasoning behind too many doctors in Italy & probably some others has more to do with the lower cost than any Gov. regulation. Some of the most established med schools even adopted English taught classes & besides luring foreign students the locals also see it as a way out of Italy to a country where they can make more.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:51 am

waldo lemieux wrote:FB

The building code analogy is dead on! Good post, I was beginning to think I was all alone :alone:


What about the rules known as the Constitution? Or how about good old "Natural Law"?

I have an inalienable right to life. If your slip shod construction project collapses and kills me, should you not be tried for murder?

Building codes spread the blame around until no one is culpable for anything.

Notice that no bankers went to jail in the recent banking crisis. Because while one side claims they are "unregulated", the fact is, there are TONS of banking regulations and those running the game were following all of them. That's why they weren't guilty of anything.

But theft is illegal right? Not when you comply with regulations apparently....
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:55 am

samhill wrote:The reasoning behind too many doctors in Italy & probably some others has more to do with the lower cost than any Gov. regulation. Some of the most established med schools even adopted English taught classes & besides luring foreign students the locals also see it as a way out of Italy to a country where they can make more.


Nope. The reason is "policy". At some point, someone decided they wanted more doctors so they made it easy to become one and then they forgot to turn off the mill. Now everyone knows these doctor mills are churning out low quality graduates and no one wants to be the one to go under his knife which hurts ALL Italian doctors.

In Italy the traditional policy of open access to medical schools has led to a chronic overproduction of physicians, with MD unemployment reaching 18% in 1995. Suspicions that the large intake of undergraduates has affected the quality of Italian medical graduates has also made it difficult for these unemployed doctors to find work


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC81257/
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:15 am

Jpete, forget who you are replying to & read your own post, it says for your enlightenment that the Gov. has little control. The standards are still high from my understanding, it's just that the U.S. & others only take the cream of the crop & leave others. Gee, I can't even remember when I saw my first foreign doctor in the U.S. but I guess maybe in RI this is something new.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:38 am

Regulation is a concept and as such cannot be denied; even natural law is a set of regulations. Everything, even the universe has rules.

jpete is right though that natural law takes precedence. When regulation conflicts with human rights or the laws of free markets or of competition, which are natural law, like the laws of climate, perhaps unwritten but inviolate, then they can only be harmful.

Getting back to Obamacare I have read that the original law had 2,000 pages and that the regulations derived from that law are now 17,000 pages. A perfect example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:24 am

samhill wrote:Jpete, forget who you are replying to & read your own post, it says for your enlightenment that the Gov. has little control. The standards are still high from my understanding, it's just that the U.S. & others only take the cream of the crop & leave others. Gee, I can't even remember when I saw my first foreign doctor in the U.S. but I guess maybe in RI this is something new.


Who made the policy of allowing free access to medical school? The school? Government? Does government run the school? Does government provide support to people who become doctors? Inquiring minds want to know.

Not sure why you think I haven't seen a foreign born doctor. The neurosurgeon that did my C5-C6 discectomy and fusion was Indian. I was just glad he wasn't Japanese seeing as my surgery was on December 7th.

But I guarantee he didn't go to an Italian medical school. :)
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:53 pm

samhill wrote:M&G, I don't think the Gov. had any other choice when it comes to things like BC/BS & the like, they themselves branched outside the guidelines of 501tax exempt & not-for-profit, once you start investing in other things you can no longer keep those statuses, they are not the same but close & have guidelines. IMO many especially Ins. giants got away from paying taxes for far too long.


True, samhill, the law gave them no choice. But who gave us the law?

Government always has lots of choices. It was a non-profit organization for social welfare. Members never complained about the service. Why should they pay taxes? It was a social welfare organization, was it not? The tax reform act of 1986 determined that BC/BS was now a for-profit. Nothing really changed. The organization was still for the health welfare of its members. Only the government's desires changed.

People were solving problems without the help of government. That was the reason the government got involved. The government hates competition. Politicians want to be the heroes.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:58 pm

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:
franco b wrote:I think there is some truth in most of these posts.

I think Mike and Gerry said it best to point out the line between regulation and management. When regulation turns into management and when that regulation exceeds its purpose of ensuring fair play and favors special interests for less than ideal reasons then we get the mess we are witnessing.


Regulation always favors one party over another.

When that is true it is a bad regulation probably arrived at for the wrong reasons, reasons other than to establish honest rules.

How could our sports team possibly operate without regulations or rules as to how the game is played. The game can be changed by such things as favoring the forward pass in football but both teams have the same chance.

There is the same necessity in business. Yes the market will sort things out in time but at what unneeded cost?


Exactly. Avoiding unnecessary costs to the people. That is the point of proactive government regulation.

How many people, who cannot wade through a complex insurance contract, have to be taken advantage of before the public becomes wise to the charlatan selling a bogus policy?

Hence, state insurance boards who act as advocates for the consumer and have someone with legal knowledge actually read the contracts and policies to evaluate if they have the value they purport. Nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: Ed.A On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:35 pm

Ran into a co-worker of my wife tonite at a local restaurant, the woman is 50ish, single and was paying $35 a week towards her insurance. She just got a letter telling her as of Jan. the company will no longer be able to provide Insurance because the plan they are under DOES NOT MEET OBOMBACARE requirements.
She does not qualify for a SUBSIDY, sooo her premiums if she chooses a CT qualified carrier or Obama- Exchange will increase to apprx $900 per month.

My my wife does not get her insurance through the company..we are self insured...Major medical only and will not sign into a Gov. forced plan.
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