Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

Have your health care rates gone up under The Affordable Health Care Act (Obamacare)?

yes
33
54%
no
19
31%
no idea
9
15%
don't care
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 61

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:20 pm

Ed.A wrote:... the company will no longer be able to provide Insurance because the plan they are under DOES NOT MEET OBOMBACARE requirements ... her premiums if she chooses a CT qualified carrier or Obama- Exchange will increase to apprx $900 per month.

Technically, the company CAN continue to provide exactly the same insurance, but if it is a large employer it may have to pay a penalty if the insurance doesn't meet minimum standards. So the company is stretching the truth if they say they "can't" provide insurance. Their other option would be to improve the insurance plan, maybe by charging the employees more. $35 per week is pretty low. Also, if the company is simply taking away the insurance it presently provides and is not kicking back to the employees the premiums the company presently pays -- well, that's simply a pay cut by a different name.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
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Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: KLook On: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:53 pm

I will respond to the building code analogy as you are in my field now. The building codes are as much a joke as any regulation the Gov. tries to enforce. All it takes is a few bucks here and a few bucks there and poof....everyone is an expert at building all of a sudden. It just creates another bureaucracy to tap into the money made from building things. I have been in so many high end homes here in Tenn. and Ga. I have lost count. I would not buy one of these things for any money as they are just horrible in every aspect. So much for your building code analogy. Corruption is present at all levels and creating new levels just creates more corruption and costs that will be passed on to the consumer.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
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Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:37 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:Hence, state insurance boards who act as advocates for the consumer


You don't actually believe that do you?
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice


Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:39 pm

KLook wrote:I will respond to the building code analogy as you are in my field now. The building codes are as much a joke as any regulation the Gov. tries to enforce. All it takes is a few bucks here and a few bucks there and poof....everyone is an expert at building all of a sudden. It just creates another bureaucracy to tap into the money made from building things. I have been in so many high end homes here in Tenn. and Ga. I have lost count. I would not buy one of these things for any money as they are just horrible in every aspect. So much for your building code analogy. Corruption is present at all levels and creating new levels just creates more corruption and costs that will be passed on to the consumer.

Kevin


Exactly. I have to be licensed by the government to do HVAC work and we all know how many crappy HVAC guys are in the field. Same goes for the other trades.

Licensing is just paying the government for your right to rip people off.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
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Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:03 pm

jpete wrote:Licensing is just paying the government for your right to rip people off.

That's just not true. It does at least guarantee some degree of experience and knowledge. In your case you could not get a NYC license until you worked in the trade for, I think, three years and passed an examination. No matter how expert you can still do bad work or cheat. It also allows the government to cancel the license of poor or cheating workers. On Long Island it was very important to license home improvement contractors to try to control the massive amount of fraud going on.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

[

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:52 pm

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:Licensing is just paying the government for your right to rip people off.

That's just not true. It does at least guarantee some degree of experience and knowledge. In your case you could not get a NYC license until you worked in the trade for, I think, three years and passed an examination. No matter how expert you can still do bad work or cheat. It also allows the government to cancel the license of poor or cheating workers. On Long Island it was very important to license home improvement contractors to try to control the massive amount of fraud going on.


Those tests are so rudimentary, at least in my experience, that you could almost walk in with basic mechanical knowledge and pass them if not for the fact that I had to show proof of a minimum number of hours of schooling(which contributes to the increase in tuition).

And then I had to pay $75 just to walk in to the testing room. After I passed, I had to pay another ~$100 to get the license and then $180 every two years thereafter.

And as an apprentice, I currently have three state licenses. One to just BE an apprentice, one for oil burners, and one for gas appliances. And the state has it's hand out for all of them.

If I work really hard, I can give them more money to test again in two years so I can give them more money to be a Journeyman 2. After that, I can take three more years of school and work so I can make Journeyman 1. And then I can do it all over for Master 2 and Master 1.

And that is for ONE discipline. Just refrigeration. If I want pipefitting, I have to do the whole process again.

And NONE OF THAT guarantees I'm actually GOOD at the job.

My father used to have a saying..."You know what they call a guy who finishes LAST in medical school?......DOCTOR!" :D
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: Ed.A On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:14 pm

rberq wrote:
Ed.A wrote:... the company will no longer be able to provide Insurance because the plan they are under DOES NOT MEET OBOMBACARE requirements ... her premiums if she chooses a CT qualified carrier or Obama- Exchange will increase to apprx $900 per month.

Technically, the company CAN continue to provide exactly the same insurance, but if it is a large employer it may have to pay a penalty if the insurance doesn't meet minimum standards. So the company is stretching the truth if they say they "can't" provide insurance. Their other option would be to improve the insurance plan, maybe by charging the employees more. $35 per week is pretty low. Also, if the company is simply taking away the insurance it presently provides and is not kicking back to the employees the premiums the company presently pays -- well, that's simply a pay cut by a different name.


It is a large company ( one you'd prolly never heard of because they operate separate from the stores they sub-contract to), and I'm sure, like lots have done their research and decided it was more cost effective just to deep six their Ins. Plan. Home Depot, Walgreens etc. come to mind.
Ed.A
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III/ '94 Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: [

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:36 pm

jpete wrote:
franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:Licensing is just paying the government for your right to rip people off.

That's just not true. It does at least guarantee some degree of experience and knowledge. In your case you could not get a NYC license until you worked in the trade for, I think, three years and passed an examination. No matter how expert you can still do bad work or cheat. It also allows the government to cancel the license of poor or cheating workers. On Long Island it was very important to license home improvement contractors to try to control the massive amount of fraud going on.


Those tests are so rudimentary, at least in my experience, that you could almost walk in with basic mechanical knowledge and pass them if not for the fact that I had to show proof of a minimum number of hours of schooling(which contributes to the increase in tuition).

And then I had to pay $75 just to walk in to the testing room. After I passed, I had to pay another ~$100 to get the license and then $180 every two years thereafter.

And as an apprentice, I currently have three state licenses. One to just BE an apprentice, one for oil burners, and one for gas appliances. And the state has it's hand out for all of them.

If I work really hard, I can give them more money to test again in two years so I can give them more money to be a Journeyman 2. After that, I can take three more years of school and work so I can make Journeyman 1. And then I can do it all over for Master 2 and Master 1.

And that is for ONE discipline. Just refrigeration. If I want pipefitting, I have to do the whole process again.

And NONE OF THAT guarantees I'm actually GOOD at the job.

My father used to have a saying..."You know what they call a guy who finishes LAST in medical school?......DOCTOR!" :D

Yes, that sounds outrageous. In 1960 the cost of my last license was $10 for a year plus you had to carry a 2500 dollar bond from an insurance co. Nobody objected to pipe fitting and boiler installs using that license. the main concern was safe oil installation. I even did a hanging hot air furnace in a gas station. I can see they really have their hand out and that forces you to charge more which means a harder sell.

I would think just one of those disciplines would keep you busy enough.

Any schooling is usually well behind current practice in the industry.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:06 pm

I would say 80%-95% of what I learned in school has no bearing on what I do day to day.

To do what I do every day should have been no more than a 6 week course. Instead, I have a 21 month associate degree.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:20 pm

jpete wrote:I would say 80%-95% of what I learned in school has no bearing on what I do day to day.

To do what I do every day should have been no more than a 6 week course. Instead, I have a 21 month associate degree.


The good part is that analytic mind of yours makes you a great trouble shooter as well as firing flack in the forum.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:21 pm

But you are a educated, certified, smart guy and can charge all outdoors to just talk to people about their problems. And the people I know within the trades call this necessary to promote professionalism. LOL I am not licensed to build a doghouse in Tenn. and I am being called out to job sites to try and "fix" issues that should never happen in the first place. Just amazing stuff. A "contractor" here is abut 6'3" or better, handsome as hell, has a business degree, passed the test for contracting, and can sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman in a white dress. Build anything? Hell man, that is what the Mexicans are for! :( Supervision is some guy from college that needs a job so you can party on the weekends or go shooting. I was on job sites for a pair of "contractors" and never saw one of them in 3 months. I finally met them because they needed to "consult" the guy I am installing cabinets for about sending me out to solve the problems. I offered to go to work for them and alleviate the problems and got a no response response. They do not perceive they have a problem. Just amazing. :roll:

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:28 pm

You won't hear an argument from me Kevin.

Other than maybe gas appliances for obvious reasons, I can't see any pressing need for trade licensing other than the unions use it as a way to limit the pool of labor which artificially raises the price for that labor.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:31 pm

Yes, and favoritism as to who get in and who doesn't. Control is what regulation is all about. And not necessarily the good kind.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:43 pm

KLook wrote: Control is what regulation is all about.


Of course it is, but it should be and often is to govern safety. Abused by using it to further social programs as was done in the financial industry with disastrous results is just another example of government abuse by using a legitimate means to achieve an illegitimate end.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Poll: Have your health care rates gone up under Obamacare?

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:56 pm

In other words franco, there has to be a little pain and unfairness in everything to make sure that incentive to excel is not squashed out. As has been happening for many years. I found out the other day that Ga. and Louisiana are non-OHSA states! Imagine that? They just tell the feds to shove it. The shop I work in would be shut down in a nanosecond anywhere near the Northeast. The gov. does not care what it costs to comply and wish they could dictate what you can charge. I bought an office desk today at Big Lots for $100, an absolute steal and a piece of junk. It would however cost at least $500 to make one in Ga. and probably $800 in New England. Imagine how cheap they made it in China to then ship it all the way over here and truck it halfway across the country? And make a profit for Big Lots? Just amazing what the lack of regulation is doing for China.

Kevin

Cant spell, getting late.....
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000


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