Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun May 19, 2013 7:16 am

lsayre
 
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sun May 19, 2013 7:22 am

I don't even know what Bitcoin is. I've never even heard of it. Let alone Mt. Gox, what the hell are these things?
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun May 19, 2013 7:32 am

I'm On Fire wrote:I don't even know what Bitcoin is. I've never even heard of it. Let alone Mt. Gox, what the hell are these things?


Bitcoin is a mega encrypted digital currency that exists freely and openly in (and that means ONLY in) Internet cyberspace (since 2009), and Mt Gox handles about $20 million of daily transactions in Bitcoins (that being currently about 70% of all Bitcoin transactions made worldwide). Bitcoins are not issued, controlled, or regulated by any government or central bank (or by anyone for that matter). Dwolla is one of the means by which Americans can transfer US Dollars into and out of Bitcoins, via the Mt Gox Exchange.

Restaurants and many other businesses are beginning to accept Bitcoins in payment, and used cars, used trucks, and even private homes are being offered for sale in Bitcoins. In Europe the first Bitcoin ATM machines are about to make their appearance. First deployment will likely be in Cyprus.

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/the-wo ... prus-bills

I'm about as confused about Bitcoins as you are, and I don't own any of them (and never have). The irony here (the part I'm interested in) is that the land of the free is taking the world lead in crushing freedom.
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: Coalfire On: Sun May 19, 2013 9:23 am

what value can a coin have that only exists on the internet I am sort of confused


Eric
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: jpete On: Sun May 19, 2013 9:28 am

Coalfire wrote:what value can a coin have that only exists on the internet I am sort of confused


Eric


What value does a coin have that only exists based on the "full faith and credit of the US government"?
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun May 19, 2013 9:30 am

A lot more then cyber cash Jeff--it ain't great BUTTTTTTT
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun May 19, 2013 9:34 am

Coalfire wrote:what value can a coin have that only exists on the internet I am sort of confused

Eric


The short answer is: Whatever value the buyers and sellers establish for it via free choice and exchange. What value does a US Dollar have, and how does it get to have value? Which is more free? 98% of all US Dollars exist only in cyberspace, and they are created from thin air.

One interesting thing about Bitcoins is that the encrypted cyberspace computer algorithm that controls (creates) them will only ever permit 21 million of them to exist (although they trade in fractions of a millionth of a Bitcoin). Roughly half of the 21 million are in existence right now, and it will take several lifetimes for the remaining half to be created. Roughly one bitcoin pops into existence at present roughly every 10-15 minutes. The process is called "mining". The mining algorithm represents the solving of mathematical equations that get tougher to solve with each time someone solves the equation. Super computers that cost whopper loads of Dollars per hour to operate can barely solve them with great effort at this juncture, so mining is no longer profitable. Solve the equation and get a Bitcoin as your reward. Miners do however occasionally still get lucky I guess. Anyone can freely mine for Bitcoins via their home computer. There are however Bitcoin millionaires (cyberspace geeks) who got in on the ground floor and mined when the equations were much more simple to solve than they are today. They also got in at about 5 cents per bitcoin (whether through mining or by exchanging their local currency into Bitcoins through an exchange). The price is about $120 US Dollars per Bitcoin right now. It fluctuates, sometimes wildly. In the past few months it has been as low as $56, and as high as $266 per Bitcoin.

Another interesting thing is that Nobel Prize willing Economist Paul Krugman hates them because he says they are a deflationary currency, and all currencies (per Paul Krugman and his Keynesian economics) should be inflationary and have the potential for infinite units to be created at will.

The Bitcoin mining process is intended to mimic the mining of gold and silver (and coal, oil, etc...), the quantity for which in the earth is finite, and the mining of which gets more difficult and more costly and has less and less returns as time goes by, thus driving the value up over time (the deflationary part of it). The value of Dollars by contrast is over the long haul forever declining (the inflationary part).
lsayre
 
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: franco b On: Sun May 19, 2013 10:00 am

Coalfire wrote:what value can a coin have that only exists on the internet I am sort of confused


Eric

The value of a bitcoin ultimately goes back to the currency used to purchase it. The value of paper currency only remains while holders have faith in the issuing body to not steal too much of it by diluting through arbitrary creation of more.

" Governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of
the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they
confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually
enriches some […] Those to whom the system brings windfalls […] become
“profiteers” who are the object of the hatred […] the process of wealth-getting
degenerates into a gamble and a lottery."

That was written by John Maynard Keynes.
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: Coalfire On: Sun May 19, 2013 10:01 am

so are you saying if I figure out a math problem I will get these bitcoins? How would one trade these bit coins in for money? Give me a website than, and I will turn some math wiz I know on it.



Eric
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun May 19, 2013 10:09 am

Coalfire wrote:so are you saying if I figure out a math problem I will get these bitcoins? How would one trade these bit coins in for money? Give me a website than, and I will turn some math wiz I know on it.

Eric


Just download the mining program and start running it. It is free (as is the actual source code).

As for exchanging them, that is what Dwolla and Mt Gox (and the like [there are lots of them similar to these two out there worldwide], as well as Bitcoin ATM's) do. Or you can simply find someone who already has Bitcoins and trade something for them. That is apparently how many people get them.

Since many transactions are already occurring 100% in Bitcoins, eventually the utility (artificial necessity?) of exchanging them for any local currency will pass, and they will stand alone.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun May 19, 2013 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: jpete On: Sun May 19, 2013 10:10 am

freetown fred wrote:A lot more then cyber cash Jeff--it ain't great BUTTTTTTT


If it is merely the act having "faith" in bits of base metal and scraps of cloth, then why does a Federal Reserve Note have more "value" than a Bitcoin?

I have FAR more trust in whoever issues private currency than I do the Fed.

Why can't I choose which one I trust more? Why must I be forced, under threat of force, to "trust" something which doesn't deserve my trust?
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun May 19, 2013 10:14 am

At this juncture anyone who is contemplating Bitcoins must be fully aware that the US Government is hell bent upon destroying the Bitcoin, and it will ultimately destroy real live people (and their reputations, livelihood, their ability to live outside of a cage, etc...) as necessary in the process.

Since Bitcoins themselves exist totally separately from (and secure from) exchanges, theoretically they can go on regardless of what the government does to the exchanges. The only way to stop them would (in theory) be to close down the entire Internet. However, threats to life and limb should eventually prove to have value in bringing the free will and desire to have and exchange them to a halt.

Interestingly enough, with the announcement that Dwolla was being shut down by Homeland Security, the worldwide exchange value of a Bitcoin hardly fluctuated at all upon hearing the news. This has likely infuriated the US Gov.
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: franco b On: Sun May 19, 2013 10:33 am

jpete wrote:Why can't I choose which one I trust more? Why must I be forced, under threat of force, to "trust" something which doesn't deserve my trust?

Because theoretically the government is more trustworthy than a private entity. Unfortunately once monopoly is achieved it seems government is also subject to the same abuses as private institutions.
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: jpete On: Sun May 19, 2013 10:36 am

The Bitcoin guys were smart.

I feel bad for the guy who made the Ron Paul dollars.

He never marketed them specifically for exchange but when people started using them as such, the Feds came in, arrested him and stole all his gold and silver which he never got back.

At least with Bitcoins, there is nothing to seize.

Just like the printed gun, the Feds won't be able to stop competing virtual currencies unless they use the internet kill switch and then the game is up. The will have shown their hand to the world.
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Re: Land of the free fires first shot in effort to crush Bitcoin

PostBy: jpete On: Sun May 19, 2013 10:38 am

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:Why can't I choose which one I trust more? Why must I be forced, under threat of force, to "trust" something which doesn't deserve my trust?

Because theoretically the government is more trustworthy than a private entity. Unfortunately once monopoly is achieved it seems government is also subject to the same abuses as private institutions.


Who proposed the theory that government is more trustworthy? The government?

It's like that commercial that says everything on the internet is true because I read it on the internet. :)

It's recursive logic and it just doesn't hold water.

Government is the ULTIMATE monopoly and maintains its status through fear.

Once people get tired of fearing their government, maybe we can get around to fixing things.
jpete
 
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