Terrorist Attack in streets of London

Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: jpete On: Tue May 28, 2013 7:40 pm

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:If I pay you $100 to cut my lawn, and you pay me $100 to paint your fence, money is changing hands, but no "new" money is coming into the system.

Production creates wealth. If I figure out how to cut your lawn in half the time and charge you 75 instead of 100 then you are 25 richer than before and I have gained time to cut more lawns. We both are wealthier. If the money supply is fixed then each unit will buy more as production increases.


True but there are diminishing returns. You might be able to cut the time in half, but has the quality suffered?

Even if it hasn't, is it possible to cut the time again?

And again, once government starts skimming off the top, the money supply starts drying up quick.
jpete
 
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Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: jpete On: Tue May 28, 2013 7:41 pm

lsayre wrote:
franco b wrote:Production creates wealth. If I figure out how to cut your lawn in half the time and charge you 75 instead of 100 then you are 25 richer than before and I have gained time to cut more lawns. We both are wealthier. If the money supply is fixed then each unit will buy more as production increases.


This is why we had slow but steady deflation until the Federal Reserve came into existence and brought with it an inherently inflationary system of currency. We were far more of a closed and self sufficient society back then (with tariffs on foreign goods, levied in an attempt to keep it that way), yet we managed to become the economic powerhouse of the world.


Don't forget that with the Fed, we also go the income tax.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
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Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue May 28, 2013 7:48 pm

jpete wrote:True but there are diminishing returns. You might be able to cut the time in half, but has the quality suffered?

Even if it hasn't, is it possible to cut the time again?

And again, once government starts skimming off the top, the money supply starts drying up quick.


You are forgetting that in a system of honest money (such as the period of the bi-metal standard) value that never existed before comes into existence when things of lesser value have labor applied to them and result in things of greater value. And with mining and new silver and gold freely coming into the marketplace ail the time, the money supply is ever expanding in lock step with the value being newly created by applied labor, and therefore the money supply is never permanently fixed or stagnated. And if not quite enough new silver and gold come into existence over time to meet the increasing value of productive labor, then the gold and silver themselves merely become more valuable (the currency inflates in value [as opposed to quantity], and prices deflate as a consequence) to account for the difference (this being the exact opposite of our current system). It is a wonderful system of economic checks and balances that generally worked well (when permitted to) for 5,000 years.
Last edited by lsayre on Tue May 28, 2013 8:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: franco b On: Tue May 28, 2013 7:53 pm

jpete wrote:And again, once government starts skimming off the top, the money supply starts drying up quick.

The government spends that money so it stays in circulation. A portion of our productivity has been taken. Whether that hurts or not depends on what the government spends it on.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
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Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue May 28, 2013 7:57 pm

jpete wrote:Don't forget that with the Fed, we also go the income tax.


This one is an economic system killer right along with a currency that inherently must inflate. Government will never spend money on things that are efficient and necessary to the degree that the free market can, since the system of government spending is inherently corrupt.

Another killer: In the current system where currency is created from thin air by the Fed, our government owes the Fed interest on all of the new money they create (thus the interest that is due on Treasury Notes). However, the Federal Reserve only ever creates principal money, so where does the money to pay back that principal plus the required interest come from, sans from the issuance of new Treasuries and the need to pay those back over time with interest as well? Thus the present currency system must forever inflate (the purchasing power of currency must decline) as an inherent part of the fiat scam.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: franco b On: Tue May 28, 2013 8:04 pm

We are so lucky to have all those smart college educated economists looking after our money.
What would we do without them?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
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Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue May 28, 2013 8:11 pm

franco b wrote:We are so lucky to have all those smart college educated economists looking after our money.
What would we do without them?



The current fiat system is a bankers dream, designed by bankers. What we call the 'Federal Reserve' is merely our nations central bank. it is a private institution sanctioned by our Government. If it really was Federal, there would be full annual auditing and Federal oversight (just as for all Federal agencies and programs), but alas, such does not exist for the Federal Reserve System.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Tue May 28, 2013 8:13 pm

franco b wrote:We are so lucky to have all those smart college educated economists looking after our money.
What would we do without them?
Probably actually have money. LOL
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue May 28, 2013 8:18 pm

I'm On Fire wrote:
franco b wrote:We are so lucky to have all those smart college educated economists looking after our money.
What would we do without them?
Probably actually have money. LOL


And to bring this back on subject, if we actually had 'tangible and equitable' money, perhaps the Muslim nations would freely trade us oil for it, rather than us having to subvert and corrupt and manipulate (or overthrow or otherwise outright annihilate) their governments in order for them to be compelled to give up their truly valuable commodity in return for our currency that comes from thin air.

If you were an oil producing nation, and I came up to you and said "I'll give you this monopoly money that I can make at will forever in return for your valuable commodity that you gained from hard labor and effort." what do you think the justified and valid and honest response to my offer should be (assuming here of course that I am not simultaneously pointing multiple large guns and missiles and drones at the nation, or its leaders [or alternatively dropping massive amounts of money at their feet, such as with Karzai, or giving them modern arms and protection from harm as with Saudi Arabia])?
Last edited by lsayre on Tue May 28, 2013 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: jpete On: Tue May 28, 2013 8:41 pm

lsayre wrote:
jpete wrote:True but there are diminishing returns. You might be able to cut the time in half, but has the quality suffered?

Even if it hasn't, is it possible to cut the time again?

And again, once government starts skimming off the top, the money supply starts drying up quick.


You are forgetting that in a system of honest money (such as the period of the bi-metal standard) value that never existed before comes into existence when things of lesser value have labor applied to them and result in things of greater value. And with mining and new silver and gold freely coming into the marketplace ail the time, the money supply is ever expanding in lock step with the value being newly created by applied labor, and therefore the money supply is never permanently fixed or stagnated. And if not quite enough new silver and gold come into existence over time to meet the increasing value of productive labor, then the gold and silver themselves merely become more valuable (the currency inflates in value [as opposed to quantity], and prices deflate as a consequence) to account for the difference (this being the exact opposite of our current system). It is a wonderful system of economic checks and balances that generally worked well (when permitted to) for 5,000 years.


I haven't forgot, I just lost hope that I'll ever see it again. :)
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
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Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue May 28, 2013 9:46 pm

lsayre wrote:
I'm On Fire wrote:
franco b wrote:We are so lucky to have all those smart college educated economists looking after our money.
What would we do without them?
Probably actually have money. LOL


And to bring this back on subject, if we actually had 'tangible and equitable' money, perhaps the Muslim nations would freely trade us oil for it, rather than us having to subvert and corrupt and manipulate (or overthrow or otherwise outright annihilate) their governments in order for them to be compelled to give up their truly valuable commodity in return for our currency that comes from thin air.

If you were an oil producing nation, and I came up to you and said "I'll give you this monopoly money that I can make at will forever in return for your valuable commodity that you gained from hard labor and effort." what do you think the justified and valid and honest response to my offer should be (assuming here of course that I am not simultaneously pointing multiple large guns and missiles and drones at the nation, or its leaders [or alternatively dropping massive amounts of money at their feet, such as with Karzai, or giving them modern arms and protection from harm as with Saudi Arabia])?


lots of good points that are way to complex for my lil' brian...all i know is im making a concious effort to buy American made goods when & where I can in the same way ive tryed to limit my oil use with coal. (im not sure it really does anything but im feeling better doing it and for now thats all i can do until someone has some solutions. :cry:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Thu May 30, 2013 8:34 am

WHAT'S AN INFIDEL ?

The author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry. The man who walks with God always gets to his destination. If you have a pulse you have a purpose.

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States , especially in the minority races.

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who each explained their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Muslim gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Muslim and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'

I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine The Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'
The Muslim was speechless.

I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question:
Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President.
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: wsherrick On: Thu May 30, 2013 2:16 pm

Poconoeagle wrote:WHAT'S AN INFIDEL ?

The author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry. The man who walks with God always gets to his destination. If you have a pulse you have a purpose.

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States , especially in the minority races.

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who each explained their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Muslim gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Muslim and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'

I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine The Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering all Protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'
The Muslim was speechless.

I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me! Let me ask you a question:
Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President.


We have a diversity board at my job. It is an Inquisition for the purpose of putting fear in the hearts of the, " Melleon Challenged." Any dark skinned minority group can merely accuse racism and often they threaten us with it. I had to sit through 8 hours of what they called, Patriot Training," a course supported by Cair. It's nothing but a bunch of pro Islamist propaganda to give validity to the endless list of Muslim grievances against everyone else in the World. To utter any idea or thought openly which is contrary to these people can cost you your job and at the very least a long interrogation by the Diversity Board.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
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Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Thu May 30, 2013 3:20 pm

Maybe if a hurricane is forming and if they feel the need, that Diversity board can gather some "bags" and go Pound Sand....... 8-)
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Terrorist Attack in streets of London

PostBy: franco b On: Thu May 30, 2013 3:34 pm

For an excellent explanation of "jihad" look here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

Those nut case bomb throwers who base their actions on Islamic duty are apostates to the religion they profess as is the Imam that spoke to poconoeagle. Like losers everywhere they blame their shortcomings on somebody else. If only all those unbelievers were dead their lives would be hunky dory. Then they could concentrate on killing fellow Muslims which many do already.

Christianity went through similar trials by crazies as witnessed by the trial of Galileo who was lucky to escape with his life. Bruno was not so lucky and neither were the Cathars or the Templars.

Saladin (who was a Kurd) was noted for his compassion toward prisoners (something his opponents were never accused of) except for the fanatic Hospitalers and Templars who he had killed right away.

I think he was right since fanaticism is not part of either religion though in the present day Islam has a fringe element that through terror has influence beyond their number. Ideally they should be stopped from within Islam if and when enough clerics with courage arise. Until then we have a very sticky situation.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea