Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Wed May 29, 2013 6:41 pm

Here is the back story....We have a home in maine, paid in full. We have been here 5 years and with out any issues or insurance claim. I was surprised at our homeowners policy price at the time and was told by the agent that it will most likely decrease with time and obviously without claims....well 5 years later and no claims and the policy only goes up! We are paying 7 hundred dollars a year with a 1000.00 dollar deductible and ready to tell them off and switch. We don't want to be penalized for anything, because you know how they feather their own bed with rules and fine print that only they and their favorate Senator's are aware of, so............. The company is State Farm and appears to be one of the most expensive according to the state of maine' insurance guideline information pages on their site. Any and all suggestions welcome, and any insurance agents please, please don't be offended by my offensive language in regards to insurance company's and the politicians that are in their pockets, just my thoughts.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: mozz On: Wed May 29, 2013 7:55 pm

For that price it should be insured for about $250,000. I don't think that is out of line, i was paying that with Allstate.
mozz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu May 30, 2013 12:15 am

Lately mine seems to goe up $100 a year like clockwork. I started off 10 years ago at $700 a year. Was the same the following year. One claim for the breaker panel, and it was up to $950.

This year, it's now OVER $1,200!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Insurance. The definition of LEGAL RACKET. :x
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler


Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu May 30, 2013 4:35 am

You should be able to switch companies without penalty. Shop around! I agree, insurance is a racket. 35 yrs, not one claim, yet it goes up every year.

The one thing you don't want to do is let the insurance lapse. Once that happens you might never get insurance on that dwelling again. The only way to re-insure a place is to sell it. The new owner can get insurance on the day of the sale.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu May 30, 2013 7:33 am

mozz wrote:For that price it should be insured for about $250,000. I don't think that is out of line, i was paying that with Allstate.


What kills me is that the insurance co. says that the replacement value is 180,000. I can buy a very nice house in this town for about 75,000 tops! Move in ready, 3 bedrooms and a 2 car garage. I can also rebuild my home for the same, the kicker is it won't burn it is the brick house with cinder block walls furring strips, double 3/8's sheet rock and textured old school plaster. The 3 little pigs would be safe!
Freddy wrote:You should be able to switch companies without penalty. Shop around! I agree, insurance is a racket. 35 yrs, not one claim, yet it goes up every year.

The one thing you don't want to do is let the insurance lapse. Once that happens you might never get insurance on that dwelling again. The only way to re-insure a place is to sell it. The new owner can get insurance on the day of the sale.


We are at the anniversary now and the agent wants to do an inspection and we all know what that means! $$$
SMITTY wrote:Lately mine seems to goe up $100 a year like clockwork. I started off 10 years ago at $700 a year. Was the same the following year. One claim for the breaker panel, and it was up to $950.

This year, it's now OVER $1,200!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Insurance. The definition of LEGAL RACKET. :x
Not surprised SMITTY, I grew up in cassachusetts!
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Homeowners insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu May 30, 2013 7:58 am

Okie Dokie... heres the advise most experts would suggest: Having zero mortgage on your home is not good (it leaves you a target when shyt hits the fan), There are plenty of tax advantages, rate advantages, etc. to having a mortgage as opposed to almost any other debt.! At the same time this serves as a liability insurance as well (I assume you have a homestead on the house as well, if you don't get one!). Pull a small mortgage take that money and put it someplace safe to pay the mortage with!

As far as your homeowners insurance (You have to have it either way... mortgage, no mortgage, liability insurance, no liability insurance, etc.) You just have to shop around for the best rate you can (maybe try to bundle with your life and auto, etc?)
Most homeowners ins. dictates "replacement" cost at some outrageous number :mad: argue this number (because they wont give you that value anyways if the house burns down, its their way of charging you more per month)! The land is the Land, the foundation is the foundation, the electric lines, sewer lines, septic system, etc. are all still their in the event of catastrophe! (how much does it really cost to simply rebuild the framing and house???).... most cases of a 2000sq' strait front coln. with 2 baths, breezeway and 2 car garage wouldn't be more then $200k (yet they charge you for $300k of insurance).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Homeowners insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu May 30, 2013 9:03 am

dcrane wrote:Okie Dokie... heres the advise most experts would suggest: Having zero mortgage on your home is not good (it leaves you a target when shyt hits the fan), There are plenty of tax advantages, rate advantages, etc. to having a mortgage as opposed to almost any other debt.! At the same time this serves as a liability insurance as well (I assume you have a homestead on the house as well, if you don't get one!). Pull a small mortgage take that money and put it someplace safe to pay the mortage with!

As far as your homeowners insurance (You have to have it either way... mortgage, no mortgage, liability insurance, no liability insurance, etc.) You just have to shop around for the best rate you can (maybe try to bundle with your life and auto, etc?)
Most homeowners ins. dictates "replacement" cost at some outrageous number :mad: argue this number (because they wont give you that value anyways if the house burns down, its their way of charging you more per month)! The land is the Land, the foundation is the foundation, the electric lines, sewer lines, septic system, etc. are all still their in the event of catastrophe! (how much does it really cost to simply rebuild the framing and house???).... most cases of a 2000sq' strait front coln. with 2 baths, breezeway and 2 car garage wouldn't be more then $200k (yet they charge you for $300k of insurance).


Thanks dc, I remember growing up and being told banks will always work with you if you owe them money, and shut you down if you're a stranger and they're havin' a bad day and don't like the looks of you.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Homeowners insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu May 30, 2013 9:35 am

michaelanthony wrote:
dcrane wrote:Okie Dokie... heres the advise most experts would suggest: Having zero mortgage on your home is not good (it leaves you a target when shyt hits the fan), There are plenty of tax advantages, rate advantages, etc. to having a mortgage as opposed to almost any other debt.! At the same time this serves as a liability insurance as well (I assume you have a homestead on the house as well, if you don't get one!). Pull a small mortgage take that money and put it someplace safe to pay the mortgage with!

As far as your homeowners insurance (You have to have it either way... mortgage, no mortgage, liability insurance, no liability insurance, etc.) You just have to shop around for the best rate you can (maybe try to bundle with your life and auto, etc?)
Most homeowners ins. dictates "replacement" cost at some outrageous number :mad: argue this number (because they wont give you that value anyways if the house burns down, its their way of charging you more per month)! The land is the Land, the foundation is the foundation, the electric lines, sewer lines, septic system, etc. are all still their in the event of catastrophe! (how much does it really cost to simply rebuild the framing and house???).... most cases of a 2000sq' strait front coln. with 2 baths, breezeway and 2 car garage wouldn't be more then $200k (yet they charge you for $300k of insurance).


Thanks dc, I remember growing up and being told banks will always work with you if you owe them money, and shut you down if you're a stranger and they're havin' a bad day and don't like the looks of you.


Yea, banks are kinda sketchy like that. but you having zero mortgage on your home would make them all want you as a client. It also makes you a target for anyone seeking to sue you for any reason! a mortgage is a wonderful insurence policy for many reasons (it does not take alot... $50k is nice round number) If you had an attorney, he would be telling you the same thing I am saying now.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu May 30, 2013 9:41 am

I don't know man. That goes against every fiber of my being. I want to be OUT of debt as SOON as humanly possible. We make extra principle payments whenever possible. I want this elephant off my back!

The day I own NOBODY a dime will be a happy day for me.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu May 30, 2013 9:54 am

SMITTY wrote:I don't know man. That goes against every fiber of my being. I want to be OUT of debt as SOON as humanly possible. We make extra principle payments whenever possible. I want this elephant off my back!

The day I own NOBODY a dime will be a happy day for me.


I don't like workin' for the man either and that is why at my age at the time, 47, we paid for the house in full, under 50k. You can buy a nice home up here for cheap check out the real estate in Millinocket, Maine and get ready to say wow. At the time I was laid off in Portland where the average cape was going for 300k and we were paying a grand a month rent and a bank wouldn't talk to me because of a past divorce with looming head aches....they still hurt! The only trouble up here is work is hard to find, but I'm good at selling myself I had a job before we moved and got another when I saw the writing on the wall...a rolling stone gathers no moss!
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu May 30, 2013 10:08 am

I'm with Smitty... I see NO advantage to having a mortgage. If I were to borrow $50,000 just to have a mortgage, now I have $50,000 cash in the bank and THAT's something someone might get if they sued. As for a tax advantage....no... I'd rather pay uncle Sam what's due and keep what's left over, than to give it all to a bank just so I get a tax deduction. Home owners insurance is what pays any lawsuit. Unless you are doing something illegal, there's not a judge on Earth that will take your house because someone sued you.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu May 30, 2013 10:27 am

Freddy wrote:I'm with Smitty... I see NO advantage to having a mortgage. If I were to borrow $50,000 just to have a mortgage, now I have $50,000 cash in the bank and THAT's something someone might get if they sued. As for a tax advantage....no... I'd rather pay uncle Sam what's due and keep what's left over, than to give it all to a bank just so I get a tax deduction. Home owners insurance is what pays any lawsuit. Unless you are doing something illegal, there's not a judge on Earth that will take your house because someone sued you.


Good point, when we bought the home we secured a loan for 25k by means of giving them 25k to hold, the monthly payment was to go into an interest bearing account slightly lower than the a.p.r. of the loan, well they fooled us and after the first year the interest rates were not even close and getting worse. Now you walk into a bank with your deed and you are treated as a leaper with a liability and not an asset. They made the rules and then flipped them when the S.H.T.F.

...bTW, All the coal burning insurance agents must be at the office this morning :P
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu May 30, 2013 12:11 pm

Having been a financial planner i am in the camp of no mortgage if possible. The tax advantage is not worth the finance charges of a mortgage in my opinion since there are other legitimate ways to lessen the tax burden. We are not in the no mortgage camp yet, but are getting there as fast as possible.

We have a couple rentals, I have an umbrella liability policy for the lawsuit happy society we live in. In my opinion most that sue are looking for the quick settlement rather than drawing something out long term in a court battle. Having a $1M liability policy gives the insurance company a target number to come down from for the settlement. I hope I never have to see if it works out as planned.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu May 30, 2013 1:47 pm

titleist1 wrote:Having been a financial planner i am in the camp of no mortgage if possible. The tax advantage is not worth the finance charges of a mortgage in my opinion since there are other legitimate ways to lessen the tax burden. We are not in the no mortgage camp yet, but are getting there as fast as possible.

We have a couple rentals, I have an umbrella liability policy for the lawsuit happy society we live in. In my opinion most that sue are looking for the quick settlement rather than drawing something out long term in a court battle. Having a $1M liability policy gives the insurance company a target number to come down from for the settlement. I hope I never have to see if it works out as planned.


Thanks titleist1, that is what I want, a liability plan to protect the asset, not so much as an over priced home owners that has numerous caveats that make it practically impossible to collect. Example: sump pump stops and I suffer water damage, true story, loose mattress, box spring and some clothing. I am told that ground water doesn't count and prorated bed set is practically worthless and I still have a 1k deductible to fulfill. I have a stone house ranch style that even a broken water pipe can't hurt, I would be lucky if it cost 5 hundred bucks to sheet rock the entire house....and a fire might take out one room maybe, the fire dept is 2 blocks away! There is 1 tree that is close but that belongs to the neighbor. So I feel like I am pissing 7 hundred bucks a year down the drain.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Homeowner's insurance or liability insurance?

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri May 31, 2013 7:45 am

Just to be clear, I do also have fire insurance on the rentals and our house (bank mortgage requires it) as well as the umbrella liability policy. The one rental carries no mortgage so I don't need it to satisfy the bank but I still consider it a must have with renters. The other rental we have a line of credit against it and even though there is currently no balance on it the bank requires the insurance. Even if I had no mortgage on our house I would still carry the fire insurance.

They also require flood insurance on the LOC property which is another big $$$ racket. The premium has tripled since hurricane Ivan and those others hit FL so hard a few years back. Even though it is a couple houses from the DE Bay, we have never had flooding in that area in over 100 years....as far back as the records go. Since we are on the NJ side of the bay, fortunately for us, all those Nor-Easter winds blow the water and tide away from us and over to the DE side of the bay. All those super storm hurricanes we have had move up the coast in the last 20 years didn't bring any tidal surge or coastal flooding in our area. But we are still classified as a flood zone and it will never change.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite