Lung transplant Dilema

Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:40 pm

freetown fred wrote:
jpete wrote:
freetown fred wrote:Hmmm, black market organs---great idea Jeff--NOT--of course you know that already goes on?


I'm talking about ELIMINATING the black market.

Black markets are "black" because they have to stay out of sight to avoid the law.

If *I*(not the operative first person singular here) want to sell *MY* lung, why should I be prevented?

The black market will never be eliminated--it might change names, but never be eliminated--it would become a buyers market--highest bid wins. Why not just offer to donate to this little girl, or does greed out weigh compassion?


The black market might not be "eliminated", but how many bootleggers are there today vs. back during Prohibition?

Banning things creates the black market. Allowing things makes the black market go away.

And it's not about "greed".

If you're so compassionate, why not offer her YOUR lung?

Because you know as well as I that putting $20 into the hat is A LOT different than giving up an organ. Normally, one has to die to be in the donor category and often, families don't want to make that decision.

The donor doesn't walk away Scot free either. There are financial repercussions as well. Even if it is lost wages during recovery.

Again, if I own my body, why can't I do what I want with it?

No one has dared answer that basic question.
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: DieselBob On: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:01 pm

jpete wrote:If I have two good lungs and would be willing to give one up for say $10,000, why is it government's business to tell me I can't?

Do I own my body or don't I? That is the question.

Only if you are a woman that wanted an abortion then you could do what ever you wanted with two bodies. If you wanted a “gender reassignment” the gooberment would even pickup the tab. Maybe if they could collect some kind of luxury tax they would be happy to let you sell all the body parts you want.
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:16 pm

DieselBob wrote:
jpete wrote:If I have two good lungs and would be willing to give one up for say $10,000, why is it government's business to tell me I can't?

Do I own my body or don't I? That is the question.

Only if you are a woman that wanted an abortion then you could do what ever you wanted with two bodies. If you wanted a “gender reassignment” the gooberment would even pickup the tab. Maybe if they could collect some kind of luxury tax they would be happy to let you sell all the body parts you want.


They only pay for it if you are in prison. :)

So I guess the answer is that you don not own your body.

Good to know where we stand in the "land of the free".
jpete
 
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:02 am

.I answered you Jpete but you don't like my answer. You are free to go & put any organ you want to sell on the market, the Gov. can't & won't try & stop you just because they have medical ethics here doesn't mean they are worldwide. I would guess that there are places that may even be a bit lax on the testing & matching the question is we have very few organs that we don't need & just maybe there is a reason, just who are you going to cry to if & when your remaining single sold for profit organ fails? What is the suggested price you would put on an organ? Is it whatever the market will bear (which is my point) or is there a price cap or minimum & who would set that? Do you think it would also be fair for the organ teams to lets say have adjustable rates or should they be held to a standard while the donor makes more? Would God, Gov.,pocket (or whatever) one believes in decide who should be able to live if everything turns out for the good? Do you really think a Ins. Policy would continue to cover transplants for profit?
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:46 pm

Maybe if there was a profit, insurance wouldn't NEED to cover it.

Laser correction on my eyes wasn't covered by insurance and that guy was making a ton of money. I was able to shop around to get my best price.

One doctor wanted $2500 per eye while another doctor in his office only charged $1800 per eye.

Eventually, I found a very experienced doctor for only $800 per eye. I went from 20/200 to 20/20 in one eye and 20/15 in the other in about 10 minutes. That was a decade ago and I still see perfectly.

I can't even imagine what that surgery would have cost is it were "covered" by insurance.

Why do you think there is a rise in "medical tourism"?

Because maybe the free market does things cheaper and better than your workers paradise?
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:31 pm

Jpete, why not answer the questions?
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:44 pm

Because half of them are inane and the others are self evident.

I'm not FORCING anyone to sell their organs. But neither am I preventing it.

That would seem natural in a "free society" but I guess we don't dare to that in America.

We need government to make all our decisions for us lest we hollow ourselves out with a melon baller for fun and profit.
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:14 pm

I think you have to find some uninhabited island someplace & form your own JpeteLand & you would even find fault in yourself. :(
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:19 pm

samhill wrote:I think you have to find some uninhabited island someplace & form your own JpeteLand & you would even find fault in yourself. :(


I have no doubt in my lack of perfection. Maybe a little introspection would be good for you Sam.

What your comment has to do with the issue at hand, as usual, I have no idea.
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:31 pm

jpete wrote:We need government to make all our decisions for us lest we hollow ourselves out with a melon baller for fun and profit.

Wouldn't it be great if fat was worth a lot of money? There would be many more rich people if only you could sell it.
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:37 pm

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:We need government to make all our decisions for us lest we hollow ourselves out with a melon baller for fun and profit.

Wouldn't it be great if fat was worth a lot of money? There would be many more rich people if only you could sell it.


You could make hand crafted soap. :)
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:10 pm

Just to put a finishing touch on this Jpete the Gov. didn't make the rules the medical profession did. Now because someone wants to make a political point they want the Gov. to step in & change those rules for an emotional outcry on some link when the reality is there are cute little boys & girls that die near every day simply because it takes another small human with all the right cross matches hasn't died or their parents won't donate, it's not anyone's choice but theirs, many complain about too much Gov. & now many of the same want Gov. involvement, it doesn't work both ways.
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:51 pm

samhill wrote:Just to put a finishing touch on this Jpete the Gov. didn't make the rules the medical profession did. Now because someone wants to make a political point they want the Gov. to step in & change those rules for an emotional outcry on some link when the reality is there are cute little boys & girls that die near every day simply because it takes another small human with all the right cross matches hasn't died or their parents won't donate, it's not anyone's choice but theirs, many complain about too much Gov. & now many of the same want Gov. involvement, it doesn't work both ways.


Could there even be such an entity as the collective "medical profession" (meaning one that is capable of laying down such all powerful rules and edicts) if not for the enforcement of their whims and desires by the aid of the governments guns? The medical profession as you describe it (one with such rules) is merely a cartel. Doctors functioning in a free world would be free to offer a range of choices of treatments and options to their patients that simple can't exist in todays government backed medical cartel world.
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:05 pm

samhill wrote:Just to put a finishing touch on this Jpete the Gov. didn't make the rules the medical profession did. Now because someone wants to make a political point they want the Gov. to step in & change those rules for an emotional outcry on some link when the reality is there are cute little boys & girls that die near every day simply because it takes another small human with all the right cross matches hasn't died or their parents won't donate, it's not anyone's choice but theirs, many complain about too much Gov. & now many of the same want Gov. involvement, it doesn't work both ways.


Who makes the rules?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/opini ... .html?_r=0

The people waiting for kidneys aren’t dying because of kidney failure; they’re dying because of our failure — without Congress’s misguided effort to ban organ sales, they would have been able to get the kidneys they desperately needed.

It has been illegal to compensate kidney donors in any way since 1984.


Government MAKES the rules, so whom should one turn to when they want the rules changed?

As usual, you're shooting from the hip and missing by a wide margin.
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Re: Lung transplant Dilema

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:16 pm

Not compensating the donor makes as much sense as not compensating the doctor.
Last edited by franco b on Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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