5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:11 pm

Hi all new to forum. I've been doing allot of research and pricing the last year as my OWB is near its end, being replaced with a new wl110 boiler this summer. But dunno if I should upgrade the dhw coil to 5gpm, truthfully the cost is nominal so figure it's a good investment. On the other hand, the DHW will be dumped into a 50 gallon LP heater anyway so I see no reason for the upgrade. hmmm
I use a 10 plate heat exchanger now to preheat the DHW, but the new systems circulator will only run when a zone calls for heat on the new system, on the OWB it was required to circulate continually. What to do?
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:06 pm

Welcome! Short money to go for the 5 gpm....... Not critical due to your indirect/storage tank, however, there is no penalty using the faster exchange coil. If you don't have 8 kids in the shower all day, you will be fine. I'll bet the new boiler will change your lifestyle in a VERY short time, .....and it's good to see another family on board with little black rocks at their house. :idea:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: Freddy On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:41 pm

And.... as time goes on if the larger exchanger get's crud inside it'll take much longer before it stops working.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Visit Leisure Line Stove

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:48 pm

Thats what I figured as well, I'm fixing to get a home improvement loan now for some more insulation and the new wl110 boiler. I bugged my local dealer and one of the two inventors of the wl110 this last winter. Probably drove them both nuts. There are allot of nice stoker boilers out there, but the wl110 is the better for the buck in my situation. I near went to pellets as they are so prevelant up here on the canadian border, with a mill right near me as well. But I remember the old pot belly coal stove in my room at night and watching that glow and flicker right through the cast iron when I was a kid. Coal just makes sense, cheap and with a stoker well hey it just got better. That OWB will not be missed.
Now I need a chimney, and am looking at the direct vent hard???
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:45 pm

nuthcuntrynut wrote:Now I need a chimney, and am looking at the direct vent hard???


You mean the power vent? There is a difference between power vent and direct vent. A direct vent produces positive pressure inside the stove forcing gases out of the flue. A power vent uses negative pressure and draws them out and I'm pretty sure that is the only option on the LL.

The power vent is cheaper to start but for the long haul a clay lined chimney is the clear winner. The power vent needs to be cleaned yearly, it's going to have a limited lifetime which is going to vary, you're going to use about $20 to $40 in electric each month depending on your rates and you're venting the gas at ground level. Anthracite coal gas is not terrible but I wouldn't but it's not pleasant either.

A clay lined chimney is more expensive up front but it's a one shot deal so long term it will be cheaper, used with coal it's going to last as long as you need it to last. Maintenance is minimal as in looking up it once a year to make sure there is no obstructions, you might consider running a brush up and down every few years but I don't even bother... Of course the flue gas is also venting higher, you might smell it occasionally on humid and warm mornings. There is really no cons other than costing more at the start.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:39 pm

If there is room in the budget for the larger coil, get it...for the reasons mentioned already. The smaller coil requires a higher boiler temperature to provide decent output. The LP heater will provide a nice buffer for high-demand situations, and it will save you an earful if the boiler goes out for some reason. :)

I agree with Richard on the chimney, do it once and do it right.

Fort Covington...my dad and I used to chop & haul the corn at a farm out that way. I didn't realize there was a LL dealer out there, mind if I ask who you are getting it through?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:02 pm

Not At All, upstateheating and plumbing in bangor. He actually has one up and running.
As for the masonry chimney kinda figured the same thing, Theinsulated stainless chimneys can succomb to corrosion in the off season too i hear tell. the power venter would overcome the summertime suction problems, or so i figured. However power venters just don't sit well with me, i don't even teach them in the classroom. Besides I've got about 26 foot to get over the peak so dont think it'll have any problems even in the summer. The salesman recommended a power vent so was kicking it around.
Last edited by nuthcuntrynut on Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:07 pm

Do you know Dean Rockhill? He has a coal yard in North Bangor and sells Keystokers.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:20 pm

oops sorry Richard, i did write direct vent. and thanks for the input. Another question i have is the dealer sells allot of blaschak rice, i noticed allot of ne pa folks don't seem to care for it, any replies on why? My wife is from western pa (eighty four, pa)
she didn't even realize there was different coal mined there! and there are allot of coal burners in manongahala and washington area. Funny she grew up right next to a mine and just figured coal for the area just naturally came from there.
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:24 pm

Yes i spoke to dean, he actually bought Ward Cosgrove business out 30yrs ago where dad got his nut coal from. The keystoker is a nice unit time tested too. I'm hoping to get bulk from him. Do you know if he delivers i need a dump truck?
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:50 pm

nuthcuntrynut wrote:oops sorry Richard, i did write direct vent. and thanks for the input. Another question i have is the dealer sells allot of blaschak rice, i noticed allot of ne pa folks don't seem to care for it, any replies on why? My wife is from western pa (eighty four, pa)
she didn't even realize there was different coal mined there! and there are allot of coal burners in manongahala and washington area. Funny she grew up right next to a mine and just figured coal for the area just naturally came from there.



I like Blaschack for the consistency. The ash is not the lowest but it seems you can buy it a bag at a time and from different lots and its the same.
There are not to many bad coal suppliers but a few. Best is always try a sample before buying large qty.
As far as a Powerventer the new ones are much better but I always try to talk people into using a chimney. In the long run/ 6-8 yrs or less it will pay for itself.
Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:51 pm

Rob R. wrote:Do you know Dean Rockhill? He has a coal yard in North Bangor and sells Keystokers.



But he doesn't sell Leisure Line. :D
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:04 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
Rob R. wrote:Do you know Dean Rockhill? He has a coal yard in North Bangor and sells Keystokers.



But he doesn't sell Leisure Line. :D


I wasn't trying to steer anyone one way or the other, just mentioned it since he has been the resident Keystoker guy for a long time and many people know him as such.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:20 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Flyer5 wrote:
Rob R. wrote:Do you know Dean Rockhill? He has a coal yard in North Bangor and sells Keystokers.



But he doesn't sell Leisure Line. :D


I wasn't trying to steer anyone one way or the other, just mentioned it since he has been the resident Keystoker guy for a long time and many people know him as such.


sounds like he needs a call from Dave! :lol:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: 5gpm dhw vs. 3gpm

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:40 pm

wow you folks are competitive around here i tell you!
To be quite honest on my choice- price on the wl110 is a big plus , especially matched with a Beckett oil gun for backup. I like the vertical tube designs matched with the wet leg base. and a big plus for me- i can easily retrofit the combustion inspection hole(oil gun entry) with a wood pellet gun if i so desire, or if the need arises. Now the key stoker can be as well. But i like firetubes, maybe its all the work I'vedone in the past on some very old cleaver-brooks steamers? I must say customer service from the leisure line owners is out standing as well. At least from what I've read on this forum.
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Visit Leisure Line Stove