Other coal options

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Re: Other coal options

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:56 pm

Can you get me into the 5 ton range?

3900 sq foot victorian with 48 or 49 windows... Bad siding with minimal insulation.

:D
cArNaGe
 

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:46 am

cArNaGe wrote:Can you get me into the 5 ton range?

3900 sq foot victorian with 48 or 49 windows... Bad siding with minimal insulation.

:D


why yes of course we can... we are professionals around here!

Now its important to follow the steps precisely to achieve the goals

#1 start roaring coal fire in stove
#2 open both doors
#3 put on a pair of steel soul boots
#4 ....well, ill let you guess #4
#5 run like hell into the back yard to grab the marshmellows
:lol:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Wiz On: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:40 am

lsayre wrote:My opinion is you should be able to get into the 5 ton range.


Love to know how. Winter house is set at 72-74, family of 4 calling on dhw. Ka 6 in shop that's not being heat. Connects to oil boiler in house with all piping insulated. Ka-6 only cycles water once oil boiler goes below 150 during summer. (Note control system circulator was 24-7 all winter but change on call at end of season.) Now here might be a issue so need input_____>>>>>>> Have 80 gal dhw storage tank is pipe into oil boiler, is it too much or not necessary? I thought cutting back on feed rate it would save allot on coal but this may also contribute to coal waste for adding alot longer burn times. Stove hardly ran to 2 inch of dead coal ash on grate. First season was a learning curve.

Keystoker Ka-6 Journey begins info on setup
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:17 am

dcrane wrote:good lord 10 tons a year for 2500 sq' house :shock: I know nothing about your boiler and I can accept the fact whole house boilers burn more then a stove, but 10 ton! I could put a stove in each room and not burn 10 ton :shock:


You would be one busy stove tender. Don't forget a bucket-a-day water heater to provide hot water for a family of four. ;)

Wiz, you have been burning for 9 months? Have you cleaned the boiler during that time? If your coal produces a lot of ash, it might create a lot of flyash also.

The fact that your boiler is in an unheated outbuilding is increasing your standby losses...the underground piping with constant circulation was costing you some coal also. Your current control strategy of only circulating between the boilers when the oil boiler cools is better, but I think with an 80 gallon storage tank you can probably reduce the feed rate on the stoker from where it is now.

What temp. and timer settings are you running on the K6?

One more thing...if your coal is poor quality, that can certainly increase the amount required.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:29 am

Rob R. wrote:
dcrane wrote:good lord 10 tons a year for 2500 sq' house :shock: I know nothing about your boiler and I can accept the fact whole house boilers burn more then a stove, but 10 ton! I could put a stove in each room and not burn 10 ton :shock:


You would be one busy stove tender. Don't forget a bucket-a-day water heater to provide hot water for a family of four. ;)

Wiz, you have been burning for 9 months? Have you cleaned the boiler during that time? If your coal produces a lot of ash, it might create a lot of flyash also.

The fact that your boiler is in an unheated outbuilding is increasing your standby losses...the underground piping with constant circulation was costing you some coal also. Your current control strategy of only circulating between the boilers when the oil boiler cools is better, but I think with an 80 gallon storage tank you can probably reduce the feed rate on the stoker from where it is now.

What temp. and timer settings are you running on the K6?

One more thing...if your coal is poor quality, that can certainly increase the amount required.


@Rob, good post with effort to find some possible solutions, I wish I had experience on these things like you guys because his set up & quips look great but their has to be a way to get better then 10 ton.

@ Wiz, love those vac threads! you clearly have your eye on the ball and I'll keep my fingers crossed you find the efficiency your seeking out ;) I guess if you kids are like mine and leave lights on 24/7 and shower for 3 hours a day it makes things a lil' more difficult :cry:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Wiz On: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:25 am

Rob ka is set 140-160 for summer. Timer settings. 4 groups of 3 pins to keep out fire. Burning mix buck and rice at 11 feed. I just did complete shut down to clean ka. Wasn't bad at all, usually I clean out stove pipe with shop vac often. Coal does produce good amount of flyash. Shop is insulated somewhat, temp in shop is 60 in winter
Last edited by Wiz on Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Wiz On: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:28 am

dcrane wrote:
Rob R. wrote:
dcrane wrote:good lord 10 tons a year for 2500 sq' house :shock: I know nothing about your boiler and I can accept the fact whole house boilers burn more then a stove, but 10 ton! I could put a stove in each room and not burn 10 ton :shock:


You would be one busy stove tender. Don't forget a bucket-a-day water heater to provide hot water for a family of four. ;)

Wiz, you have been burning for 9 months? Have you cleaned the boiler during that time? If your coal produces a lot of ash, it might create a lot of flyash also.

The fact that your boiler is in an unheated outbuilding is increasing your standby losses...the underground piping with constant circulation was costing you some coal also. Your current control strategy of only circulating between the boilers when the oil boiler cools is better, but I think with an 80 gallon storage tank you can probably reduce the feed rate on the stoker from where it is now.

What temp. and timer settings are you running on the K6?

One more thing...if your coal is poor quality, that can certainly increase the amount required.


@Rob, good post with effort to find some possible solutions, I wish I had experience on these things like you guys because his set up & quips look great but their has to be a way to get better then 10 ton.

@ Wiz, love those vac threads! you clearly have your eye on the ball and I'll keep my fingers crossed you find the efficiency your seeking out ;) I guess if you kids are like mine and leave lights on 24/7 and shower for 3 hours a day it makes things a lil' more difficult :cry:
thanks dcrane, once I get coal consumption lower then all will be good.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Wiz On: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:14 pm

The fact that your boiler is in an unheated outbuilding is increasing your standby losses.
All black iron pipe is insulated with foam pipe wraps. Today I felt the foam wrap and couldn't believe how much heat lost is come from it. I'm going to re-wrap over foam insulation with R13 Fiberglass roll or should it thicker? any suggestions :)
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: steamup On: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:51 pm

I used 1" thick fiberglass pipe insulation on my system. I bought directly from a commerical insulation supplier. Energy code would recommend 1-1/2" thick.

R value would only be about 3.7 for 1" thick. I wanted a little heat loss to my building with the boiler to prevent freezing temperatures. I pay for it in coal usage but don't have frozen plumbing lines to deal with.

Most foam insulations sold in the retail stores are only 3/8" thick but occassionly you can find 1/2" thick. Way too thin for hot water applications to unheated spaces. Also, most foam insulations are only good to about 180 degrees, so make sure it isn't overheated.

Fiberglass wrap will be OK as long as you overlap the seams. R-13 will be way more than adequate but may be a little hard to work with. Try securing it in place with mechanics wire. Vapor barriers are not important for heating piping. Tapes do not hold in the long term unless you have a very clean surface in the begining.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:52 pm

Wiz wrote:
The fact that your boiler is in an unheated outbuilding is increasing your standby losses.
All black iron pipe is insulated with foam pipe wraps. Today I felt the foam wrap and couldn't believe how much heat lost is come from it. I'm going to re-wrap over foam insulation with R13 Fiberglass roll or should it thicker? any suggestions :)


Insulate the boiler and piping as good as you can. Do you have insulation on the boiler top? Some of the Keystokers I've seen only have it on the sides. I used foil-faced hard foam insulation on my brother's EFM and taped the seams with foil tape...it works excellent.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Wiz On: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:19 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Wiz wrote:
The fact that your boiler is in an unheated outbuilding is increasing your standby losses.
All black iron pipe is insulated with foam pipe wraps. Today I felt the foam wrap and couldn't believe how much heat lost is come from it. I'm going to re-wrap over foam insulation with R13 Fiberglass roll or should it thicker? any suggestions :)


Insulate the boiler and piping as good as you can. Do you have insulation on the boiler top? Some of the Keystokers I've seen only have it on the sides. I used foil-faced hard foam insulation on my brother's EFM and taped the seams with foil tape...it works excellent.

Rob there is no insulation on top of ka, I'll be addressing that this weekend. Pick up 8 rolls of R 13 to wrap over foam pipe insulation, 140ft of black iron pipe to wrap. Work shop walls will be done before fall, ceiling aready done. Don't know how much coal will be saved by doing this.
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Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: coalkirk On: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:34 pm

Something is very wrong somewhere. I'm heat 4,000 sq. ft. with 5 tons of coal. I am alittle further south than you but not 5 tons further south. Someone in your area needs to stop by and check out your installation.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Wiz On: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:24 pm

coalkirk wrote:Something is very wrong somewhere. I'm heat 4,000 sq. ft. with 5 tons of coal. I am alittle further south than you but not 5 tons further south. Someone in your area needs to stop by and check out your installation.


Coalkirk, I'm hoping the changes I've done at the end of season will help . Underground piping isn't issue because when it snows it doesn't melt off. House is insulated and 80% windows have been replaced. Are you running yr round? First 7 ton of rice had allot of barley in it, next 5 ton of buck was size with no fines at all. Circulator was running 24-7 until end of season, it's now running on demand only.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:45 pm

Wiz wrote:Shop is insulated somewhat, temp in shop is 60 in winter


How large is the shop? If that is staying around 60 degrees, you might as well consider that heated space. 2500 sq. ft home...does that include the basement? If not, how warm is the basement in the winter months? Family of four using domestic hot water? Is your house exposed to the wind from multiple directions? All of those things add up.

Also, the underground piping will always be a source of some heat loss...even if the snow doesn't melt. That is the cost of doing business when the boiler is not installed in the home.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Other coal options

PostBy: Wiz On: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:18 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Wiz wrote:Shop is insulated somewhat, temp in shop is 60 in winter


How large is the shop? If that is staying around 60 degrees, you might as well consider that heated space. 2500 sq. ft home...does that include the basement? If not, how warm is the basement in the winter months? Family of four using domestic hot water? Is your house exposed to the wind from multiple directions? All of those things add up.

Also, the underground piping will always be a source of some heat loss...even if the snow doesn't melt. That is the cost of doing business when the boiler is not installed in the home.

Shop is 16 by 16 heat off of boiler heats shop, depending on outside temps shop does drop to 50. House is surround by woods on 3 sides, and yeah wind does come in on side that's open. As for basement I never took temp reading in winter, it did feel quite warm. Basement has approx 100 ft of iron pipe that's connects both boilers, piping is insulated with foam. Family of 4 for dwh, wife does laundry mostly with cold water.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Visit Lehigh Anthracite