keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:22 am

nuthcuntrynut wrote:I lookedat the Harman v3000 last winter in action, it is a descent boiler. With that said my thought on boiler tubes is that water should run through the Shell not through the tubes. Does it matter? no, probably not. There are many Harman pellet stoves up here and they are without a doubt the best, and that is also not the first time I've heard about their company support. that's just sad and it will hurt the entire company in time i believe good product or not.
The wl 110 in my belief is an awesome boiler, that has been around only five years or so, the Keystoker
60 yrs. I have heard both companies are great to deal with. My knowledge on coal is limited to what i read, however i do know boiler systems & designs, and i like round boilers over square ones. Mainly because of trapped heat, water temp. layering and corrosion issues to name the big ones. ISo these are the pros and cons of both in my opinion.



Check this thread, it's a good read on Keystoker boiler and video of Ka6 running... You'll need to turn up the volume if you want to hear stove, they are super quite :D

Keystoker Ka-6 Journey begins
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:24 am

dcrane wrote:having said that... some other good ways to get a feel for a product is to look and see how many Used, Rebuilt Leisure Line Boilers you can find on the web VS. Used Keystokers (its a good "telltail" for a consumer)


There are a few different ways to look at that. Total used units for sale, and used units per sale as a % of total sold. There are plenty of used EFM units for sale, but it certainly isn't because people don't like them. Usually it is because the house got sold and the next owner isn't into coal...or the homeowner is no longer physically able to handle coal/ashes.

LL and Keystoker each make good products and have good customer service, so pick whichever works best for your circumstances.

:idea: Carefully look at the design of each unit and see how easy it is to do periodic maintenance, and ask how often it is required. How easy is it to brush out the heat exchanger? Remove fines from the grates? Lubrication? Size of the hopper and ash tub? Use of standard off-the-shelf controls? Can it burn more than one size of coal? etc...you get the idea.

As for Harmon...they have no direct customer service, and most of the dealers don't know much about the coal products...especially the stoker boiler. Their VF3000 is efficient and has a large hopper & ash tub, but it uses some unusual controls and in my opinion does not have enough btu output for many homes.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:35 am

jeezum now I'm thinking to far in debt again, sorry about ramblingon. BUT...... i like the solid state controls on the wl110, however the ka4 are simplistic, mechanical.
So one boiler is time tested hard as nails, the other boiler is more economical to run with allot of features, it's vessel is also time tested. i can clean each knook & cranny on the wl, not so with the ka, or at least not without standings on my head. The ka will have a better dhw rebound time due to the larger volume of boiler water in the vessel, yet i believe the lower volume in the wl it will react to change allot quicker. Dhw isnot a big deal with me as i use the boiler to preheat the water, so there is a buffer between my teenage daughters bathtub and the dhw coil. Allot of my opinions are totally crap too!
i like big butts too, but that's another thread.
and... i am leaning toward the blue boiler so that it matches my Dillon 550b reloading press. It should look good right?
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

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Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:47 am

leisure line has allot of upgrade options i like that, and the oil gun is standard, though i don't need the gun, I've got three sitting in the shop right now that i loan to my hvac program. hmm wonder what they would credit me for shipping a new unit w/o the oil gun? Hey another question if i need to take the ashes out so much, is the larger hopper really a good option?
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: Wiz On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:06 pm

nuthcuntrynut wrote: Hey another question if i need to take the ashes out so much, is the larger hopper really a good option?
Amount of coal ash depends allot with quality of coal. So if your burning decent coal with a boiler that has a larger ash pan and hopper it's less time involved and more time to with family. I'm only filling Keystoker hopper every 13 days and ash pan 4-5 days depending on how much DHW is needed. Like Rob mention compare apples to apples.. Hopper size,ash pan size, btu, how easy is unit to clean and maintain during heating season. The more moving parts a unit has could relate to more that could go bad. Another key point Rob mention is will unit burn more then just one size coal, allot of people burn rice and most likely will be a shortage when you need it the most. Keystoker Ka will burn Rice or Buck, I prefer using buck. Cleaning Ka-6 can be done less then 20 mins. ;)
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:19 pm

This is the only K-4 I'm familiar with and it was hand fired. :D :D :D
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wsherrick
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: None
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: None
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: None
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: None
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: None
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:30 pm

wsherrick wrote:This is the only K-4 I'm familiar with and it was hand fired. :D :D :D

funny thing my son works as an engineer in wy for the UP, there are still a few coal burners in use, he didn't say if it was cost effective, or for nostalgia though.
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:53 pm

I don't think any of them are in revenue service; more of a preservation/heritage thing: http://www.up.com/aboutup/special_train ... ndex.shtml .

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:30 pm

Ours ( Leisure Line ) will burn Buck or rice as well. I have even burned Pea in mine but don't recommend it. I had no problems but not really enough testing. Ours are ATSME rated as well. The larger hopper is nice, easier to fill and less often. Oil gun takes off $150 if removed. It can always be easily added later, already wired for it anyway. Flue clean out option is highly recommended.

You will be happy with either product and save money. They are almost as good as us. :D
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:12 pm

s for Harmon...they have no direct customer service, and most of the dealers don't know much about the coal products...especially the stoker boiler. Their VF3000 is efficient and has a large hopper & ash tub, but it uses some unusual controls and in my opinion does not have enough btu output for many homes.


ditto as I own one. I had the where with all to make it work and got a lot of help on this fine forum. I would not purchase another one. Yes it is working fine but the winters in Maine have been milder and it has no room for ramping it up if needed. Customer service???? Hahahahaha! To be fair, they expected the dealer to service the unit. But the dealer knew less about coal then I did. And that was no fault of his, I asked him to order me the Harman and I would take care of the install and making it work. I asked Harman NOT to beat on this dealer because he had done as I asked. Not to mention he was my propane dealer and was the best deal in town. I believe they honored that as I never heard from him that he had got reamed. But, if not for this forum and my own ability to figure it out and make it work, I would have been screwed. It is not the way I would recommend or want to do it again. LL or Keystoker, but I would go for the LL.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: coalkirk On: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:36 am

It occurs to me that with the amount of new people coming to the forum, many may not know that Leisure Line is a company that was bought by two forum members who were previously not in the coal stove business. Since purchasing the company they have expanded into boilers using time tested equipment and have truly set the benchmark for customer service in the industry. The fact that these guys who are from our rank and file took this risk and have done so many great things with LL since then should be reason enough for forum members to return the favor and show our loyalty by supporting these guys. If you are considering a boiler you owe it to yourself and to LL to give them are very serious consideration. This is not a paid indorsement. :oops:
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: nuthcuntrynut On: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:46 am

coalkirk wrote:It occurs to me that with the amount of new people coming to the forum, many may not know that Leisure Line is a company that was bought by two forum members who were previously not in the coal stove business. Since purchasing the company they have expanded into boilers using time tested equipment and have truly set the benchmark for customer service in the industry. The fact that these guys who are from our rank and file took this risk and have done so many great things with LL since then should be reason enough for forum members to return the favor and show our loyalty by supporting these guys. If you are considering a boiler you owe it to yourself and to LL to give them are very serious consideration. This is not a paid indorsement. :oops:


thank you i did not know that. I'm definitely leaning toward the LL boiler.
nuthcuntrynut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: wl110 leisure line
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: ussc pellet stove
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: WL 110

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:35 am

coalkirk wrote:It occurs to me that with the amount of new people coming to the forum, many may not know that Leisure Line is a company that was bought by two forum members who were previously not in the coal stove business. Since purchasing the company they have expanded into boilers using time tested equipment and have truly set the benchmark for customer service in the industry. The fact that these guys who are from our rank and file took this risk and have done so many great things with LL since then should be reason enough for forum members to return the favor and show our loyalty by supporting these guys. If you are considering a boiler you owe it to yourself and to LL to give them are very serious consideration. This is not a paid indorsement. :oops:





Thanks, :oops:
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:11 am

The Kaa-4-1 is not a reiteration of a K-6, it is a new boiler that uses a inclined grate stoker similar to Alaska and LL. It uses a larger stoker(120k gross) that the Kaa 2 however is not the style of a KA-6.
The design intent seems to be to provide a small/medium sized boiler to compete with the Leisure Line 110 boiler and the Kaa 2 was not quite large enough for some homes, hence Keystoker built this boiler. I saw it over two years ago in testing at the plant, and was respectful enough to not blab about it's existence.

As most members know, Keystoker has been around for a long time and are great people; make wonderful equipment and service is outstanding.
LL is owned and operated by two very avid coal guys who just happen to be very bright and like most of us, HATE poor service that has become synonymous with most anything we buy today.
They moved forward with their version of what product quality and service should be. Jerry had a very good reputation, so the bar was painstakingly raised and continues to be higher as innovation and good ole fashioned hard work dictate. When you call the manufacturing facility, you get Matt or Dave on that end, and not only do they work there, they are where the 'buck stops'.

I often say: 'Change occurs when someone sees the next step', and that is what I see whenever I'm visiting from out of town, or right there on the factory floor.
Choice's are simply just that, and we should feel lucky to have opportunity. Blue or Green....all is good. :D :lol: :idea: :!:
Last edited by whistlenut on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: keystoker is offering the ka-4 again.

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:17 am

Is the new Ka-4 radically different from the original (and discontinued) Ka-4?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Visit Lehigh Anthracite