Keystoker Is Offering the KA-4 Again.

nuthcuntrynut · Post by **nuthcuntrynut** » Wed. Jul. 10, 2013 7:26 pm

just got back from looking at a ka6 at a local coal dealer, was very glad to hear they now offer the ka4 again, received a great price on one. Was also glad to hear he delivers bulk at a good price from the lehigh mine I believe. the coal looked very uniform.
hmmm now to decide a leisure line or keystoker?

Scottscoaled · Post by **Scottscoaled** » Wed. Jul. 10, 2013 11:00 pm

Here! Let me help you decide. EFM

ncountry · Post by **ncountry** » Fri. Jul. 12, 2013 11:58 pm

Hey, I live not too far from you..what local dealer carries keystoker?

freetown fred · Post by **freetown fred** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 6:01 am

Gotta give my vote for the LL myself--great stoves & outstanding CUSTOMER SERVICE. No brainer

nuthcuntrynut · Post by **nuthcuntrynut** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 6:11 am

ncountry wrote:Hey, I live not too far from you..what local dealer carries keystoker?

Rockhill coal, in Malone
been in business thirty years, if you want his numbe PM me.

Post by **dcrane** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 6:20 am

Even I... who knows very little on the subject of Boilers would know this is a no brainer for several reasons.
If I was making an investment like this the number one priority would be service, knowledge and partnership into this investment, who's soul purpose is to make money in my pocket.
Just like investing in the stock market I would want and NEED help (because I'm not a stock broker)... I would need to invest in an expert who is not only good at what he does but more importantly for me... I need to TRUST in that broker and I want to feel like he is WITH me!

Leisure Line would be my Stock Broker because their reputation, their trust, their communication, their 100% commitment to live/breath & help people like us SUCCEED is second to none!

having said that... some other good ways to get a feel for a product is to look and see how many Used, Rebuilt Leisure Line Boilers you can find on the web VS. Used Keystokers

(its a good "telltail" for a consumer)

here are a few examples worth peeking at:

How Many Have Canceled There Keystokers ?

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/boilers-home-he ... astat.html

http://www.justanswer.com/hvac/2yzt9-recently-pur ... -coal.html

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/keystoker-coa ... elp.11425/

Keystoker Boiler Summer Settings

Keystoker Boiler Dump Zone Question

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 7:35 am

Without a hesitation it would be a Keystoker product, been in business for over 60 years. From the first day on deciding on Keystoker I've been very pleased with them. I deal directly with Keystoker and have always gotten excellent customer care. I will say this thou, I wouldn't ever buy a Harman product because customers care sucks and dealer I dealt had a personality of a moron. If EFM would've been in my price range, it might have been the one in shop. Now about the thread of cancel of a Keystoker

. Try to buy a air conditioner in the middle of a heat wave and see what happens. When stores are all so out, I guess they suck to.

coalkirk · Post by **coalkirk** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 7:46 am

That thread about cancelling keystokers came about during the last big push to alterantive heating when oil prices etc. were jumping up. Keystoker was trying to gear up for the increase in demand but were limited by the amount of electrical service they had at their facility. An upgrade was ordered but it took the utility company quite a while to bring the needed extra juice to their plant. They make a great product for sure.
And yes Harman customer service is non-existant but their products are also high quality and pretty much bullet proof (their boilers anyway) so you don't need customer service. Still sucks though.

But the bottom line is if I were in the market for a boiler today, it would be a LL for sure. You can't beat the level of service they bring to the game!

coalnewbie · Post by **coalnewbie** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 8:22 am

But the bottom line is if I were in the market for a boiler today, it would be a LL for sure. You can't beat the level of service they bring to the game!

Everything degrades. An ice cream on a summers day will last 5 minutes and perhaps the Taj Mahal will last for 50,000 years but everything degrades and needs service. I agree, nothing comes close to LL service and as we love coal stoves they go tend to go wrong at the worst possible time. I spent $1000 on propane last winter as when the Harman P38+ pellet stove main board c rapped out. No dealer could be found to fix it and I was in Florida for a while. In the end I had to repair it myself.

Solution? Another LL stove is going in this winter. It may or may not be the best solution for the problem but service is a huge motivator in my book. I learned my lesson. It also speaks to the KISS principle when designing heating systems.

Post by **dcrane** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 9:20 am

I'll just add a note regarding Harman since others have mentioned their name...

Harmon was sold out to a very large Conglomerate long ago... admittedly their designs are good which is why they "sold out" to a good offer but EVERYTHING else about this company is HORRIBLE (did I say HORRIBLE!

Its a company that cares more about getting every blood sucking nickel out of the consumer as possible and giving as little as possible in return for it!
They even hold their dealership network hostage, will not allow changes to their ever increasing prices under any circumstance, make extreme efforts to limit the consumers contact with them, the executives of the company including Mr. Determen himself don't even know what a stove is nevermind how one functions because they are so wealthy and oblivious they cant take the time to remove the silver spoon from their mouths to discover their may be alternatives to the dial on the wall of their mansions.

These are not our people folks and I don't think anyone who truly cares about America, Preserving American fuel and American made products and cares about the customer service, integrity, trust and hard work that built our great country would by any Harman product if they knew what I know.

HOW YA LIKE ME NOW

Im sorry for my inability to bite my tongue

freetown fred · Post by **freetown fred** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 9:38 am

Sooooo dc, how do you REALLY feel about all that?

Post by **dcrane** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 9:48 am

freetown fred wrote:Sooooo dc, how do you REALLY feel about all that?

I know Fred (Im sorry

) no offense to Dane Harman (a great man who worked his azz off).

coalnewbie · Post by **coalnewbie** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 10:05 am

Sooooo dc, how do you REALLY feel about all that?

Yeah, don't you hate it when people beat around the bush.

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 10:13 am

coalnewbie wrote:Solution? Another LL stove is going in this winter. It may or may not be the best solution for the problem but service is a huge motivator in my book. I learned my lesson. It also speaks to the KISS principle when designing heating systems.

I'm starting to think that in England the KISS principle refers to "King of Incredible Slew of Stoves" or something like that.

Mike

nuthcuntrynut · Post by **nuthcuntrynut** » Sat. Jul. 13, 2013 10:13 am

I lookedat the Harman v3000 last winter in action, it is a descent boiler. With that said my thought on boiler tubes is that water should run through the Shell not through the tubes. Does it matter? no, probably not. There are many Harman pellet stoves up here and they are without a doubt the best, and that is also not the first time I've heard about their company support. that's just sad and it will hurt the entire company in time I believe good product or not.
The wl 110 in my belief is an awesome boiler, that has been around only five years or so, the Keystoker
60 yrs. I have heard both companies are great to deal with. My knowledge on coal is limited to what I read, however I do know boiler systems & designs, and I like round boilers over square ones. Mainly because of trapped heat, water temp. layering and corrosion issues to name the big ones. ISo these are the pros and cons of both in my opinion.