Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Pacowy On: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:54 am

dcrane wrote:
blrman07 wrote:Dcrane, I was trying to follow your posting but got confused. Maybe it's a terminology issue.

dcrane wrote:However wen it comes to forced induction stokers the game changes quit a bit because liners are not necessary as the grate system does not touch the combustion chamber walls and draft/air flow are totally adjustable. So it is my opinion that a stoker CAN indeed be made to work equally well and equally as efficient as a wood pellet & rice coal burner. It would clearly need an up angle auger system and an adjustable draft regulator, etc., an auto ignite may only be viable for wood pellets but the main issue involves marketing such a stove as a wood burning stove & coal stove (EPA, UL labs, etc.)


When you refer to "forced induction stokers" are you talking about stoves or furnaces that have a forced draft fan that supplies combustion air under the grate?

When you say that a stoker can be made to work equally well and as efficient as a wood pellet & rice coal burner I am not sure what your talking about because a very large percentage of stokers burn rice coal. I experimented with adding wood pellets to my stoker stove and was successful at a 30/70 ratio of wood pellets to rice coal utilizing a carpet feed system, not an up flow auger. 30% wood pellets to 70% rice coal worked. I didn't feel comfortable increase the ratio due to the flammability of the wood pellets in the hopper.

It was a nice experiment but that is all it was since where I am at wood pellets are over $200 a ton and rice coal is $170. If it flip flops in the future I know I can do the mix.


Yes.. the main concern would be fire in the hopper if you use a coal stoker (like the LL) and put wood pellets into it. or the auto igniter in the Harmon if you introduced rice coal into it, the draft would surly need to be adjusted differently for wood pellets vs. rice coal etc,etc... A wonderful dual fuel unit can be done and maybe is done already (maybe they cant advertise it as such).

In terms of forcing a draft like that into large football field coal bed (that's what they do to melt iron, not heat a home) :lol:


A few years ago the EFM underfeed stoker was certified for burning pellets and the 520 was marketed as a multifuel boiler. I haven't seen any efficiency ratings but, as dc notes, the fuel/air feed rates are widely adjustable on those units so the efficiency with pellets shouldn't be too bad.

So rest easy, all of you manly men laboring under the misimpression that you can't efficiently burn wood in your coal stoves. Cram in an EFM stoker, get a skirt, and you'll be all set! :lol:

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: dcrane On: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:10 am

Pacowy wrote:
dcrane wrote:
blrman07 wrote:Dcrane, I was trying to follow your posting but got confused. Maybe it's a terminology issue.

Sorry Pacow, admittedly im not the best at describing things sometimes :(


When you refer to "forced induction stokers" are you talking about stoves or furnaces that have a forced draft fan that supplies combustion air under the grate?

When you say that a stoker can be made to work equally well and as efficient as a wood pellet & rice coal burner I am not sure what your talking about because a very large percentage of stokers burn rice coal. I experimented with adding wood pellets to my stoker stove and was successful at a 30/70 ratio of wood pellets to rice coal utilizing a carpet feed system, not an up flow auger. 30% wood pellets to 70% rice coal worked. I didn't feel comfortable increase the ratio due to the flammability of the wood pellets in the hopper.

It was a nice experiment but that is all it was since where I am at wood pellets are over $200 a ton and rice coal is $170. If it flip flops in the future I know I can do the mix.


Yes.. the main concern would be fire in the hopper if you use a coal stoker (like the LL) and put wood pellets into it. or the auto igniter in the Harmon if you introduced rice coal into it, the draft would surly need to be adjusted differently for wood pellets vs. rice coal etc,etc... A wonderful dual fuel unit can be done and maybe is done already (maybe they cant advertise it as such).

In terms of forcing a draft like that into large football field coal bed (that's what they do to melt iron, not heat a home) :lol:


A few years ago the EFM underfeed stoker was certified for burning pellets and the 520 was marketed as a multifuel boiler. I haven't seen any efficiency ratings but, as dc notes, the fuel/air feed rates are widely adjustable on those units so the efficiency with pellets shouldn't be too bad.

So rest easy, all of you manly men laboring under the misimpression that you can't efficiently burn wood in your coal stoves. Cram in an EFM stoker, get a skirt, and you'll be all set! :lol:

Mike


That's a great thought Mike if the poster was looking for a boiler or furnace (he was really looking for a nice living room coal/wood burning stove (but as everyone can agree the stove does not exist that does both equally well :( ) the best hope is if LL gets busy and starts putting together a living room unit with an up auger and adjustable combustion fan or maybe some "easy set" controls that say "PA Folks" / "MA Folks" and then the MA folks might be tempted to set it on the PA peoples position just to try it out and then its "Game OVER" they will never burn wood again! :lol:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:32 am

EFM recommends you mix the pellets with coal AFAIK, if I recall 80% pellets. I know it was also used to burn corn long before corn burners came on the market. They changed it to dual fuel to take advantage of the $1500 tax credit. It will burn those fuels but it's really made for anthracite.

As far as stoves go I know the Harman TLC got good reviews for coal and wood.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Pacowy On: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:01 pm

dcrane wrote: That's a great thought Mike if the poster was looking for a boiler or furnace (he was really looking for a nice living room coal/wood burning stove (but as everyone can agree the stove does not exist that does both equally well :( ) the best hope is if LL gets busy and starts putting together a living room unit with an up auger and adjustable combustion fan or maybe some "easy set" controls that say "PA Folks" / "MA Folks" and then the MA folks might be tempted to set it on the PA peoples position just to try it out and then its "Game OVER" they will never burn wood again! :lol:


Ah, but LL doesn't need to get busy putting together a living room unit with an up auger and adjustable combustion fan and "easy set" controls because I already have one in my garage. The stoker is in a nice cabinet that has the instructions printed right on it and can be controlled by the uninitiated with a single lever. And for people with big living rooms, this one is good for up to 300k btu/hr. :yes:

Mike

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Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Pacowy On: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:05 pm

Richard S. wrote:EFM recommends you mix the pellets with coal AFAIK, if I recall 80% pellets. I know it was also used to burn corn long before corn burners came on the market. They changed it to dual fuel to take advantage of the $1500 tax credit. It will burn those fuels but it's really made for anthracite.

As far as stoves go I know the Harman TLC got good reviews for coal and wood.


IIRC the pellets can be burned straight or in a blend. It's the corn that really needs the blend - gets messy otherwise.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Dennis On: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:10 pm

Gary1 wrote:I'm aware of companies that make furnaces that burn both wood and coal, such as the Woodchuck unit made by the Meyer Mfg co, but can anyone tell me if there are any excellent stoves that burn both fuels efficiently?


Yes,They do make duel fuel stoves that burn efficient "BUT" not 100% like everyone wants.
Most people here will argue against a duel fuel.
But if your coal is more expensive and have a good source for wood and a strong back,go for it.It's not a perfect world and everyone most adapt to what fits your own situation.
Your best situation is to find a good coal stove to fit your heating demand during the colder mounths, and it will burn wood in the shoulder mounths when the heat load is smaller.There are many members here that burn wood and coal during the season without any problems in the same stove witch is not designed as a multi fuel stove. Use the search button in the top right corner for multi fuel and burning wood in a coal stove.
Good luck and welcome,everyone here is willing to help just ask.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: warminmn On: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:11 pm

My Dad has a Hitzer 55UL that burns wood awful good in my opinion, and seems pretty efficient on a low air setting. As for coal it is fine too, but its not a hopper stove so it does take more time during loading. Plus no window. Like has been said, its hard to have it all. You'll like the coal better.
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite. Soft coal
Other Heating: wood

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:13 pm

If you are going to burn soft coal and/or wood I would say you have a good shot at finding a stove that will meet your needs well. I have not seen let alone burned hard coal so I cant say how they would mix. I have burned wood and soft coal in a US stove company wondercoal and they both burned equally poorly, I have also burned wood and soft coal in a Vermont castings Vigilant it worked better than the wondercoal in every way. I have looked over a couple warm mornings and a Florence hot blast they looked like they would burn both well. Soft coal burns a lot like wood but with far more heat.
carlherrnstein
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:21 pm

Pacowy wrote:
dcrane wrote: That's a great thought Mike if the poster was looking for a boiler or furnace (he was really looking for a nice living room coal/wood burning stove (but as everyone can agree the stove does not exist that does both equally well :( ) the best hope is if LL gets busy and starts putting together a living room unit with an up auger and adjustable combustion fan or maybe some "easy set" controls that say "PA Folks" / "MA Folks" and then the MA folks might be tempted to set it on the PA peoples position just to try it out and then its "Game OVER" they will never burn wood again! :lol:


Ah, but LL doesn't need to get busy putting together a living room unit with an up auger and adjustable combustion fan and "easy set" controls because I already have one in my garage. The stoker is in a nice cabinet that has the instructions printed right on it and can be controlled by the uninitiated with a single lever. And for people with big living rooms, this one is good for up to 300k btu/hr. :yes:

Mike

Cabinet.JPG
Stoker Instructions.JPG


The man just wants to heat his house, not set up an industrial laundry.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:46 pm

wsherrick wrote:The man just wants to heat his house, not set up an industrial laundry.


Well, you don't have to run it flat out. It will idle 24/7 at around 10k btu/hr, and is pretty much infinitely adjustable up to the big number. Besides, some of us like to have a little reserve capacity. :lol:

My real point was that there are a lot of advanced coal burning performance and convenience features that already have been developed and implemented, only to be pretty much lost to the ages. I've heard that theme in many of your posts regarding hand-fired stoves, and I think it applies in the stoker realm as well.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:13 pm

Pacowy wrote:
wsherrick wrote:The man just wants to heat his house, not set up an industrial laundry.


Well, you don't have to run it flat out. It will idle 24/7 at around 10k btu/hr, and is pretty much infinitely adjustable up to the big number. Besides, some of us like to have a little reserve capacity. :lol:

My real point was that there are a lot of advanced coal burning performance and convenience features that already have been developed and implemented, only to be pretty much lost to the ages. I've heard that theme in many of your posts regarding hand-fired stoves, and I think it applies in the stoker realm as well.

Mike


It certainly does. Even the old stoker manuals and literature were very advanced and informative compared to today's.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:49 am

Somehow, we never seem to acknowledge that between carpet mechanisms linked to coaltrols, modern stoves are just so much more efficient and CONTROLLABLE. I control my environment to within a degree or two, punch out 100K of heat, get parts in 24 hours and it takes me 2 mins every morning to tend it and that is only if it is real cold. I just don't want some arcane piece of junk that boils my brains out in the shoulder seasons (read the one thousand posts on windowstats), explodes in my basement or requires post graduate work in hydraulics and I don't care how much it puts out at max. One stove, one purpose it's simple, I don't even care if it burns bit. well. I also don't want a car that doubles as a 'plane either, it will be a lousy, expensive car and have terrible flying characteristics.

Burn anth, go to PA and find a manufacturer who lives or dies by his ability to burn the local coal superbly (although I do like Hitzer). There are extenuating circumstances I will admit but I simply don't care. I'm next door to NEPA and I love it...... I found my religion. :) Water is for drinkin' and wood is for making dining tables and to think my wife thinks I'm opinionated and insensitive - go figure. :roll:
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:50 pm

coalnewbie wrote:Somehow, we never seem to acknowledge that between carpet mechanisms linked to coaltrols, modern stoves are just so much more efficient and CONTROLLABLE. I control my environment to within a degree or two, punch out 100K of heat, get parts in 24 hours and it takes me 2 mins every morning to tend it and that is only if it is real cold. I just don't want some arcane piece of junk that boils my brains out in the shoulder seasons (read the one thousand posts on windowstats), explodes in my basement or requires post graduate work in hydraulics and I don't care how much it puts out at max. One stove, one purpose it's simple, I don't even care if it burns bit. well. I also don't want a car that doubles as a 'plane either, it will be a lousy, expensive car and have terrible flying characteristics.

Burn anth, go to PA and find a manufacturer who lives or dies by his ability to burn the local coal superbly (although I do like Hitzer). There are extenuating circumstances I will admit but I simply don't care. I'm next door to NEPA and I love it...... I found my religion. :) Water is for drinkin' and wood is for making dining tables and to think my wife thinks I'm opinionated and insensitive - go figure. :roll:


Not sure where to start here - seems to mix new vs. old, handfired vs. stoker, stove vs. boiler and anthracite vs. other fuels all at the same time. If you like carpet mechanisms, coaltrols or modern stoves that's fine, but I don't think they are needed to provide efficiency. AFAIK, a furnace tends to be (far) more efficient than a stove due to the greater heat exchange area it normally provides, and a boiler tends to be more efficient than a furnace due to the advantages of water vs. air in absorbing heat. Different methods of control will produce heat on demand from a thermostat, advanced degrees normally are not required to operate hot water or steam systems, and there are many "arcane pieces of junk" that don't produce puffbacks.

I think it's great that you have found your religion. If it's the approach you prefer, you don't need to justify it by claiming objective "advantages" over the approaches used by others.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: Fire375 On: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:10 pm

Hitzer model 354 and 254 burn both well. Use to burn wood in a 354 with good burn times of 8 -10 hours with alittle hot coals left to start the reload. Switched to coal and my goodness did that thing throw the heat and a lot longer burn times than wood.
Fire375
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer Stoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 710

Re: Who makes a quality stove that burns both wood and coal?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:12 pm

If it's the approach you prefer, you don't need to justify it by claiming objective "advantages" over the approaches used by others.


Religion is non informational and is just a qualitative expression of mine - it's just the language I use. When we have spent a pile of money it's human nature to justify what we have done. I "justify" my choice with observed results and point out possible advantages but there may be better ideas and I am receptive to those ideas as they apply to my application. To change I would need more hard information not the location of your church - so I am all ears.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Visit Hitzer Stoves