Testing Time for New Coal Users

 
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BugsyR
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Location: Madison TWP, Pa
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker

Post by BugsyR » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 10:25 am

Was feeling good about myself until this cold snap came in. When shopping this past summer I narrowed my search down to LL Pocono, Hyfire I and II, Keystoker 90K or 105K. Talked with friends about their Keystokers and how well they do. I'll be perfectly honest. When I stood and looked at the Hyfire I and II, I just knew that one of those is what I needed for my house. The extra BTU's would have been nice last night. I went with the Keystoker. Starting to feel 90K just isn't enough for the excessive cold days.

Although it was cold out it wasn't below zero which easily happens. Single digits outside last night and into this morning, the oil heat comes on at 60 and it did this morning on the second floor. :annoyed: First floor was 65. Basement where the stoker is was 67. Side Surface temp of stove was 450.

Going to have to get more ducting and try to duct first floor air to the convection blower intake and attempt to complete/improve that circulation loop.

Current set-up:
Keystoker 90K direct vent top mount.
Feed Adjustment Screw has 6.5 CCW turns on it. Eyeball tells me approx 5 inches of burning coal on plate with approx 1 inch of ash at end. Flames hitting roof.
Convection fan set to auto.
Thermostat mounted in basement across the room set for 72 reading 67.

Ducting:
6 inch convection vent exhaust hole on top of stoker ducted to 2 floor registers in main living area on first floor. (cathedral ceiling with ceiling fan on in reverse for winter)
Air supply to convection blower is sucking the air off the basement floor.
Basement door above steps which leads to main living area is always open.

More tweaking to do. Any suggestions are and will be greatly appreciated. Don't need 70 degrees or above all the time, just want that oil furnace to stay quiet...LOL. A little chilly but still happy that I haven't bought any oil since a partial fill this past September. I easily would have been well into my second tank by now if it wasn't for the stoker.


 
Matthaus
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Location: Berwick, PA and Ormand Beach FL

Post by Matthaus » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 10:32 am

BugsyR wrote:Air supply to convection blower is sucking the air off the basement floor.... Any suggestions are and will be greatly appreciated.
The basement will be cooler, but if you duct a cold air return from the first floor to the convection fan inlet you will probably raise the temp in the living area by a few degrees on those really cold days. :)

 
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av8r
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Location: Near Owego, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)

Post by av8r » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 10:48 am

It's going to be hard to heat 2 above grade floors with convective currents I think. If you can get a cold air return from that top floor into the basement you should see some change. My buddy is heating a ranch with a Channing III in the basement. Basement is 80, first floor is 65-67. He has one, 6" ducted fan in the basement ceiling that dumps warm air into his hallway at the far end of the house. Using fans to push that air around he can keep the upstairs cool, but comfortable. We have a large cold air return on the opposite end of the house dumping into the basement.
Last edited by av8r on Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
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gambler
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Post by gambler » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 10:49 am

Stoves are a thing of beauty, why hide them in the basement.
I know some will give me flack but a stove should be put in the main area you are trying to heat.
If you want your heating device in the basement you should buy a boiler or furnace.

OK take it easy on me guys!

 
Matthaus
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Post by Matthaus » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 11:06 am

gambler wrote:If you want your heating device in the basement you should buy a boiler or furnace.
Rick, I'm with you on that one. :D

 
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Devil505
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Post by Devil505 » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 11:18 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:
Devil5052 wrote:7* outside & 72* at my desk. Stove made it through the night but still can't budge the shaker handle :(
I've decided that, since the shaker grates are in the full-open position, I'm not gonna fool with it any more. Letting it go out & then I will clean it out & hopefully unstick the grates. (hopefuly something is just jamming the grates & not a problem with the shaker mechanism itself)

Here's my gameplan:
I. If shaker grates were just jammed by coal but work fine after cleaning out I will relight the stove for the rest of the winter.....hopefully!
2. If the shaker grates still wont work using the shaker handle (mechanism problems):
a. If I can at least get them closed (so they will support a coal bed), I will relight & run the stove through the cold snap for a few days. (using the probe I jury-rigged to clean out from under the shaker grates ) Then try to dismantle the shaker grates system & fix it or call my Harman dealer for a repair visit.
3. If the shaker grates are jammed in the full open position & wont budge.....PUNT!
I'm almost positive you'll find something jammed in the grates. When shaking, use a short, back and forth "chopping" motion. The extra travel is then available if a jam occurs. If there is a jam, extend the length of the strokes back and forth just a little. The full travel of the shaker lever is available for dumping the entire bed when emptying the stove, Harman really doesn't make that clear in the instructions.
Right you were John...
Eureeka....Life is good again!!! Emptied , cleaned out & restarted the Harman this morning. (pulled out a marble sized clinker that was wedged perfectly between the rear grate & the back of the stove) Mechanism is smooth as silk again & the grates look fine. (did this so fast, the house never got a chance to cool down!! (still just 15* outside at 11:20am)

 
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BugsyR
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Location: Madison TWP, Pa
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker

Post by BugsyR » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 11:52 am

I agree too Rick. Commander in Chief of the House (wife) wouldn't allow coal stoker in main living area. It was a 2 year "cold" uphill battle for me to get a coal burner into the basement... :lol: She likes it down there and it is easier for me down there also.
As for boiler or furnace, "if I knew then, what I know today..." I would have been a member of this board back in 2004 and talking about my boiler in my basement and my stoker in the garage ;) Someone quickly get me a time machine!!

av8r - I have been dreaming, planning, and scheming to get ducting to go from far corner of coldest room upstairs (2nd floor) down to basement to complete that loop. It sounds like a good idea for me. My house layout has the main living room (cathedral ceiling) smack dab in the middle of the house. The 2nd floor hallway is actually a balcony over looking the main living room. 3 Bedrooms upstairs. Master Bedroom is the coolest bedroom and that is where the upstairs oil heat zone thermostat is at. Master bath is the coldest. I am planning...and because of me planning...the wife is going to kill me and cook me on top of the stoker... :lol:

Thanks all for the suggestions!!!


 
xackley
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Post by xackley » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 12:18 pm

I wouldn't have a stoker in a living area if for no other reason that the motor noises.

Mine is in my walk in basement. The air jacket/cold air return idea does work. It ranges from 60* to 67* in the basement, living area is 70* (or what ever I have set the thermostat).
http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/1904137.html
A few things are missing from the drawing:
A damper to control the volume of "cold air" with the volume of heated air off the stove.
One or more strategically locate holes in the floor to feed the bottom of the jacket.
The limit switch placement as drawn would not collect air heat very well, as the heated air would keep flowing up the cold air return inlet.

But I am in the marker for a Hitzer or Alaska Kodiak to create the warm spot in the living area. Maybe even a small Channing. As I don't really need another stove, I will wait for that Great deal.

Edit: oops meant Harman Mark, not channing
Last edited by xackley on Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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av8r
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Location: Near Owego, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)

Post by av8r » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 1:20 pm

xackley:

I know what you mean about motor noises, but...I have my stove so quiet now that you literally cannot hear it until the stoker motor kicks on. This from 8-10 feet away. My combustion fan is beginning to make some noise similar to the first one I had (cyclical vibration noise that can be immediately stopped by simply touching the motor housing), but it comes and goes now and is mostly silent. About all I have left to do is dampen some of the resonance of the sheet steel on the stove and look at the stoker motor to see what makes it so noisy. I suspect it's just the gear reduction which may benefit from some isolating and different grease, but I'm not sure of that yet.

I've spent little time on this and I'm very pleased with the results. My wife is even impressed that one of my boondoggles is actually working!

 
Dano
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Post by Dano » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 10:06 pm

it was 5* and 15mph wind last night had that little Harman with the hilkoil crankin 250* on the stack about 650* on the stove I had the water in the base boards running 145* all night woke up to 70* degree house. house built in 1879 mostly insulated as I remodled but it is still drafty stove is in the basement tonight its supposed to be 1* and 10 mph wind (I want a bigger stove) I want to heat my domestic water too
Dan

 
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CoalHeat
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Location: Stillwater, New Jersey
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Post by CoalHeat » Thu. Jan. 03, 2008 10:08 pm

Devil5052 wrote:
Wood'nCoal wrote: I'm almost positive you'll find something jammed in the grates. When shaking, use a short, back and forth "chopping" motion. The extra travel is then available if a jam occurs. If there is a jam, extend the length of the strokes back and forth just a little. The full travel of the shaker lever is available for dumping the entire bed when emptying the stove, Harman really doesn't make that clear in the instructions.
Right you were John...
Eureeka....Life is good again!!! Emptied , cleaned out & restarted the Harman this morning. (pulled out a marble sized clinker that was wedged perfectly between the rear grate & the back of the stove) Mechanism is smooth as silk again & the grates look fine. (did this so fast, the house never got a chance to cool down!! (still just 15* outside at 11:20am)
Glad you got the little bugger out.

 
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e.alleg
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Post by e.alleg » Fri. Jan. 04, 2008 4:58 pm

we made it through the cold snap without a hitch. Overnight temps of 3, daily temp 5. House was at 72+ because 3 family members were sick including me. Burned right about 200 pounds in 24 hours, the blower was on about 60% of the time, no feed adjustment was necessary.

 
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coalkirk
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Location: Forest Hill MD
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520 retired
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507 on standby
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite/rice coal

Post by coalkirk » Sat. Jan. 05, 2008 7:13 am

[quote="BugsyR"]I agree too Rick. Commander in Chief of the House (wife) wouldn't allow coal stoker in main living area. It was a 2 year "cold" uphill battle for me to get a coal burner into the basement... :lol: She likes it down there and it is easier for me down there also.
As for boiler or furnace, "if I knew then, what I know today..." I would have been a member of this board back in 2004 and talking about my boiler in my basement and my stoker in the garage ;) Someone quickly get me a time machine!!

The above quote should be carefully considered by all thinking about buying a coal stove to "heat their home".
You just arn't going to be able to heat your whole home with a stove unless you have a very small home. You'll have rooms that are hot, rooms that are warm, rooms that are cool and rooms that are cold. Scan through this forum and read all of the posts involving things like how do you distribute heat from your stove . You'll also find some are running multiple stoves or GASP, still using their furnaces! If you are going to go to the trouble and expense of installing coal burning equipment, put in a coal furnace or boiler so that you heat the whole home. You'll never regret it.

 
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Devil505
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Post by Devil505 » Sat. Jan. 05, 2008 8:27 am

coalkirk wrote:
BugsyR wrote:I agree too Rick. Commander in Chief of the House (wife) wouldn't allow coal stoker in main living area. It was a 2 year "cold" uphill battle for me to get a coal burner into the basement... :lol: She likes it down there and it is easier for me down there also.
As for boiler or furnace, "if I knew then, what I know today..." I would have been a member of this board back in 2004 and talking about my boiler in my basement and my stoker in the garage ;) Someone quickly get me a time machine!!

The above quote should be carefully considered by all thinking about buying a coal stove to "heat their home".
You just arn't going to be able to heat your whole home with a stove unless you have a very small home. You'll have rooms that are hot, rooms that are warm, rooms that are cool and rooms that are cold. Scan through this forum and read all of the posts involving things like how do you distribute heat from your stove . You'll also find some are running multiple stoves or GASP, still using their furnaces! If you are going to go to the trouble and expense of installing coal burning equipment, put in a coal furnace or boiler so that you heat the whole home. You'll never regret it.
I disagree with coalkirk when he says: "....You just arn't going to be able to heat your whole home with a stove unless you have a very small home. You'll have rooms that are hot, rooms that are warm, rooms that are cool and rooms that are cold."
I own a 44x26' split entry ranch that, while I wouldn't consider it a mansion, I wouldn't consider it a small home either at roughly 2200SF. I heat the whole house with just my Harman TLC2000 in the basement family room. I live in Massachusetts & it gets pretty cold up here in the winter. Granted, my hot water is heated via the natural gas fired hot water heater, but all my heat comes from the Harman.
Provided you bough a stove sized correctly for your home & through the use of a little inginuity, (strategicaly placed fans, cold air returns, etc) you can distribute the heat throughout you whole home pretty uniformly.

 
Matthaus
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Post by Matthaus » Sat. Jan. 05, 2008 10:33 am

coalkirk wrote:...You'll have rooms that are hot, rooms that are warm, rooms that are cool and rooms that are cold. .....If you are going to go to the trouble and expense of installing coal burning equipment, put in a coal furnace or boiler so that you heat the whole home. You'll never regret it.
I agree that heating a house with a stove is not always the best solution but it can work pretty well. I have a two story house that is 22X65 and has high ceiling entry/living room on one end a family room on the other with a staircase connecting the second floor. Because the upstairs is open to the bottom floor on both ends the house sets up a natural convection loop with the stove being in the kitchen on the first floor it heats very evenly. I have run an Alaska Kast Konsole, Alaska Channing II, and Harman Magnum, using the Coal-Trol with a Tstat on the first floor around 15 feet from the stove. With a set point of 73 the downstairs stays within one degree of that and the upstairs stays within three degrees. My gas boiler has not run since spring 2005, and we do not run any other form of heating device.

I do agree that it is good to consider your choices very carefully when making the stove VS central heat plant decision, but I like the warm spot in the kitchen and will always run some kind of a Coal Stove in there even when I get the AA boiler hooked up to run the hydronic baseboard heat that is installed in my house.

Stay warm everyone! :D


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