Detroit

Re: Detroit

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:33 pm

jpete wrote:Look at the preventable losses that occur now with the tons of regulations we have.

E coli on the vegetables. Contaminated peanut butter coming from a plant that the FDA didn't even know existed. Heck, how many deaths occur from "FDA approved" drugs?

I'm not saying the free market is necessarily "better" than government regulation. I'm saying that the 535 guys in D.C. can't possibly know how to provide the "best" products and services so why add in the middle man who doesn't add any value but just skims money off the top?

The obvious answer is it would be worse, maybe. My blood still boils when I think of the pet food companies selling poisoned cheap crap from China, and they are still in business. Neither regulation nor free market put them out of business.

We see what happened when brokerages became banks with all the flimflam schemes they came up with and still do. Do the silver and gold ETF have the metal they claim? I doubt it, and nobody checks. For that matter do the central banks have the gold they claim or only IOUs for it?

Theoretically we need a lot more regulation but as you rightly point out with the ineptness of the regulators, why bother? There was proof that Madoff was a fraud years before he was nailed. The securities commission sent a couple of kids to check and Bernie scammed them in a few hours. If it weren't for the recession he would still be scamming.

I think there is in the collective wisdom of the working people of this country a feeling that something has gone very wrong, but how could all those experts who reassure us be wrong?

Isayre posted a beautiful quote from Ayn Rand on happiness. In my own mind her work is securely grounded in biology but that was not her field so has to compete with other theories of philosophy which is the wrong venue. The hunger and need for a new religion will remain until we learn what made the old one tick.
franco b
 
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:41 am

Easy answer Richard---what made the old one tick, and continues to do so, is FAITH ;)
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:22 am

franco b wrote:The obvious answer is it would be worse, maybe. My blood still boils when I think of the pet food companies selling poisoned cheap crap from China, and they are still in business. Neither regulation nor free market put them out of business.


So you can have poisoned dog food and pay for bloated, ineffective government regulations or you can have poisoned dog food for free. I know which one I'd pick.
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:00 am

freetown fred wrote:Easy answer Richard---what made the old one tick, and continues to do so, is FAITH ;)

An easy answer but faith in order to be understood or felt needs understanding. By understanding I mean going beyond language or what we learn by rote like 1+1 = 2. That equation is so much a part of us that we no longer need to recall the formula. We just know it at a glance. We feel it without conscious thought which is also the requirement of faith. Knowing without knowledge or beyond knowledge. Seeing through the mists of our biological needs and emotions to the eternal.

Why do you love your dogs and horses? Even love is the wrong word for what is an emotional bond that we feel the rightness of and satisfaction in, yet find hard to logically define, as we do faith.

An old Native American saying was that God created everything except the dog. He already had one.
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:51 am

jpete wrote:
franco b wrote:The obvious answer is it would be worse, maybe. My blood still boils when I think of the pet food companies selling poisoned cheap crap from China, and they are still in business. Neither regulation nor free market put them out of business.


So you can have poisoned dog food and pay for bloated, ineffective government regulations or you can have poisoned dog food for free. I know which one I'd pick.

The operable word is ineffective, but not all regulations are. The rules of the road for driving work out pretty well and have seen changes through the years to improve them. They are there to minimize chaos on the roads and further commerce, which they do.
franco b
 
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:36 pm

Another old saying---"if I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand anyway" We can both be very happy for what we've got there Richard :)
franco b wrote:
freetown fred wrote:Easy answer Richard---what made the old one tick, and continues to do so, is FAITH ;)

An easy answer but faith in order to be understood or felt needs understanding. By understanding I mean going beyond language or what we learn by rote like 1+1 = 2. That equation is so much a part of us that we no longer need to recall the formula. We just know it at a glance. We feel it without conscious thought which is also the requirement of faith. Knowing without knowledge or beyond knowledge. Seeing through the mists of our biological needs and emotions to the eternal.

Why do you love your dogs and horses? Even love is the wrong word for what is an emotional bond that we feel the rightness of and satisfaction in, yet find hard to logically define, as we do faith.

An old Native American saying was that God created everything except the dog. He already had one.
freetown fred
 
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:22 pm

Detroit now plans to spend 450 million on a hockey arena. These people are not real.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/26/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t3
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:31 pm

franco b wrote:Detroit now plans to spend 450 million on a hockey arena. These people are not real.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/26/news/ec ... ?hpt=hp_t3


:mad: :mad: :mad:
grumpy
 

Re: Detroit

PostBy: grumpy On: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:34 pm

grumpy
 

Re: Detroit

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:07 am

Isnt it awesome be able to spend money you clearly dont have! :poke: Liven the Dream Libtards. Too bad your kids wont. ;)
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:16 am

samhill wrote:....Give credit where credit is due, times were a lot different then & now.


Yes, then we had a bustling and thriving Detroit, and now we have a wasteland of crime and rotting destruction.

Detroit under freedom: Everyone employed, homes well maintained, food on the table, kids playing safely outside, etc..

Detroit under fascism/socialism: No one employed, starvation, collapsing homes, no one dares to venture outside, etc...

Samhill, your perception seems to be well off the mark. Freedom works. Give it a try.
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:30 am

Isayre, is this a fair assessment of what has happened or is it just a bunch of lies? What do you consider Freedom, is it freedom for some & not others? Is it the freedom to take & use what others have paid for in both money & blood to use for your own advantage? If you want your freedom experiment there are still largely uninhabited & basically unimproved areas in the U.S. leave Detroit to it's own demise & start from scratch, put all the infrastructure in & don't worry about the cost it's just an investment that will have untold returns. Allow free enterprise to be truly free & do it all like you claim it was. http://www.unlockyourlife.com/pizzigati.html
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:22 pm

So FDR was a hero. I would have to give him an A for effort but pretty much all economists say he did the wrong things.

Kenneth Galbraith said at the time that he was surprised to find that FDR was an economic illiterate.

Isn't Detroit example enough for you of what not to do? What happens when a corrupt liberal government drives out the producers.
franco b
 
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Another example of too much regulation and too many fingers in the pie. This is from Walter Williams column.

Much of Egypt's economic problems are directly related to government intervention and control, which have resulted in weak institutions so vital for prosperity. As Hernando de Soto, president of Peru's Institute for Liberty and Democracy, wrote in his Wall Street Journal article titled "Egypt's Economic Apartheid" (Feb. 3, 2011), more than 90 percent of Egyptians hold their property without legal title. De Soto said: "Without clear legal title to their assets and real estate, in short, these entrepreneurs own what I have called 'dead capital' -- property that cannot be leveraged as collateral for loans, to obtain investment capital, or as security for long-term contractual deals. And so the majority of these Egyptian enterprises remain small and relatively poor."

Egypt's legal private sector employs 6.8 million people, and the public sector has 5.9 million. More than 9 million people work in the extralegal sector, making Egypt's underground economy the nation's biggest employer. Why are so many Egyptians in the underground economy? De Soto answered by giving a typical example: "To open a small bakery, our investigators found, would take more than 500 days. To get legal title to a vacant piece of land would take more than 10 years of dealing with red tape. To do business in Egypt, an aspiring poor entrepreneur would have to deal with 56 government agencies and repetitive government inspections." According to the World Bank, in terms of the difficulty of doing business, Egypt ranks 109th out of 185 countries.
franco b
 
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Re: Detroit

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:58 pm

Franco, exactly when, who, why & how were the producers driven out, where was the big exodus & what corrupt party was in office during those times? Don't know if GDR was a hero or not but it seems to work at that time, like with everything hindsight is 20/20. What & who was in office to bring on the bankruptcy of two automakers & untold other businesses? Easy to point & ignore. :roll:
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