Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: JRLearned On: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:22 pm

For those who asked, the application is adapting a non-electrical but thermostatic draft control mechanism to a radiant coal stove. I've been exploring ways to control burn rate based on the surface temp of the stove. Im leaning towards an electric solution, using a draft inducer fan while measuring and controlling the surface temp with a thermocouple and PID controller.
JRLearned
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: FrankenChubby

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:49 am

Maybe you were absent that day, but most farmers ive known arent dumb asses. But I guess as long as you throw a couple smiley faces at the end, you can say whatever you want. :D :) 8-) :lol: :sick:


Sonny, long before you were a gleam in your fathers eye, there were electrically assisted thermocoupled draft controllers. I bought one on Ebay (c1910) and it works very well and it's a neat device. So 100 years later you think you about to change the world with the discovery of this advanced concept. The reason we don't talk about thermcouples or toilet paper is that we all assume that the other posters we talk to know how to use these things. FF is a very brilliant man and very inventive mechanically. Now get that stick out of your a$$ and draw us something up and we can talk some more. Just in case Central Maine is on the line, make sure you lift your little pinky when drinking tea. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I slay myself - God, I am just soooo funny.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
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Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:04 am

Let's not get our panties in a bunch over proper vinacular per key pad! JRL we all or most all know what you are doing, what coalnewbie, FF, and I are trying to say "come on in and wipe that sour puss off your face and grab a cold one, life is too short to be jammed up and come in the tree house and stink it up :D :lol: :| have a nice day!
michaelanthony
 
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Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:35 am

JRLearned wrote:For those who asked, the application is adapting a non-electrical but thermostatic draft control mechanism to a radiant coal stove. I've been exploring ways to control burn rate based on the surface temp of the stove. Im leaning towards an electric solution, using a draft inducer fan while measuring and controlling the surface temp with a thermocouple and PID controller.


What exactly are you looking to accomplish? Are you trying to get a consistent heat output thru the burn time? Is heat output yo yo ing up and down?

I've experimented with your idea. I controlled a draft inducer motor with a thermostat to try and keep a steady temperature in the house. I wrote a thread about it. It worked pretty good. Used it for about a month. I eventually quit using it because I liked having manual control better. Personally I think fanning the flames and then letting it cool is less efficient than a steady burn.

If yer having a yo yo ing issue a barometric damper will steady it. It's all about maintaining a steady negative pressure in the fire box so that a steady flow of combustion air is coming in. This equals steady heat output between refueling.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:11 am

Now you got me confused--you're jumping from "non-electrical" to using a "draft inducer fan" ?????? I'm thinkin that for what you seek, as stated already, a Baro would be the best place to start. As for that EXPLORING--just remember that Columbus thought he had landed in the W. Indies toothy
JRLearned wrote:For those who asked, the application is adapting a non-electrical but thermostatic draft control mechanism to a radiant coal stove. I've been exploring ways to control burn rate based on the surface temp of the stove. Im leaning towards an electric solution, using a draft inducer fan while measuring and controlling the surface temp with a thermocouple and PID controller.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:30 am

Columbus thought he had landed in the W. Indies
... and that is why the W Indies is one of the 58 states. However, I digress.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
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Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:44 am

Don't forget--also the reason Native Americans are referred to as Indians :mad3: toothy WOW, we got 58 now??? who-da-thunk ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:08 am

Perhaps this thread is what you are looking for:

http://nepacrossroads.com/about10561.html
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: JRLearned On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:31 am

michaelanthony wrote:Let's not get our panties in a bunch over proper vinacular per key pad! JRL we all or most all know what you are doing, what coalnewbie, FF, and I are trying to say "come on in and wipe that sour puss off your face and grab a cold one, life is too short to be jammed up and come in the tree house and stink it up :D :lol: :| have a nice day!


Appearantly you're not allowed to call someone out for being a little rude on this forum. I didn't blast someone for using "big" words, FF did. I didn't call farmers dumb-asses, FF did. I post one comment saying FF was being rude and you all appearantly spent days ranting and raving with each other over it. Who's really being overly sensitive and emotional here? I never said FF wasn't some brilliant mechanical person; He did in his self-deprication and stereotyping of farmers. For the record I have many close relatives who are/were farmers, and they are all decently educated. I never said I was going to change the world by using a thermocouple, and they've been around for a long time because they work well. I work in the Forgings industry and have an interest in process control and metallurgy. I'd go into more detail about my career, but I won't do that here. And, I don't live in Maine, not that i see how that would matter. You all are all WAY off base.
JRLearned
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: FrankenChubby

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:54 am

Point being--what happened to the bi-metallic draft regulator idea you opened this thread with?
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
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Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: JRLearned On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:19 am

Freetown,
The idea was mount some device to provide air intake control to a chubby stove. The link posted above by lsayre looks fascinating. The cylindrical shape of the Chubby provides a challenge compared to a box stove, which is why I gravitated towards a flue fan requiring little to no modifications to the chubby. I don't want to devalue the stove unless i'm certain it would work and I'm willing to live with it. I'll review the link in more detail and post on this later. Right now, gotta go hiking w/the family.
JRLearned
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: FrankenChubby

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:38 am

JRLearned wrote:You all are all WAY off base.

How can that be? I didn't even say anything yet. Our sage Ben Franklin recognized this problem early on and developed ways to get his point across without giving offense.

Because you are new to the forum and have not read several thousand posts by Freetown Fred it's too easy to jump to a mistaken conclusion. To give offense is the last thing on his mind.

To control a process it is first necessary to understand the process you wish to control. A stove charged with enough fuel to last until the next tending time 12 hours or more away will not respond efficiently to rapid changes in combustion air supplied. A simple bi metal thermostat as you originally proposed works very well and in conjunction with a hopper even better.

To carry control further is best done with a stoker where both fuel fed as well as combustion air is controlled.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
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Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:31 pm

JRLearned wrote:... to control burn rate based on the surface temp of the stove. I'm leaning towards an electric solution, using a draft inducer fan while measuring and controlling the surface temp with a thermocouple and PID controller.

A high-tech solution to a low-tech problem. I understand why it would be hard to fit the bi-metal thermostat to a Chubby, it being round instead of square. But a draft inducer might kill stove efficiency. Most of the wiser :!: folks on this forum use a barometric damper with a hand-fired stove, to keep draft from being too high. (Boy, am I going to get zinged now! :P ) So draft is perhaps .06 whether the air inlet is open a little or open a lot; you get a lot more HEAT with the inlet open a lot, of course. But if the draft is increased above optimum by the inducer, air and flue gases move through the stove too fast to give up their heat to the stove body, and a lot of heat is wasted up the chimney.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:49 pm

Good post. But why zinged for mentioning a barometric damper? Some installations would benefit greatly while with others it would have marginal utility. Like any tool knowing how and when to use it counts.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
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Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: warminmn On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:41 pm

One idea I saw posted on this site that I really liked was the following and Im sure I dont have it 100% right (i dont know the technical terms)... Have a device attached to the stove(thermo???). When the temperature dips below a certain degree, it sends a signal to a fan, turning it on. The fan is blowing on the bimetal draft regulator, which cools the damper, causing it to open up quicker. When the temperature on the stove gets up to the required degree it shuts off the fan, allowing the damper to heat up quickly and shut down again. The fan wasnt for inducing air into the stove, it was to cause rapid cooling of the damper.

I really thought this idea would work nice for keeping a constant temperature in a house. It would help blow the heat around too, but could blow ash around too if any were laying on the hearth, which I thought was the only bad thing that could happen.

I wish I could credit whoever brought this up on this site so feel free to take a bow if it was you. :idea:

It does seem like forcing the air thru the stove would waste a lot of heat thru the chimney.
warminmn
 
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