Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: JRLearned On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:27 pm

The shaded pole motor on the ad-1 inducer I purchased runs at about 179 degrees when on high. I measured it last night with a laser thermometer. Turn it on low and you get a bunch of harmonic noise and the motor housing heats up to 198 in 10 minutes! This was on its own, no burn going. I read posts elsewhere here about the ad-1 and motor temp (wish I'd found it before ordering). It just stands to reason the fan won't last long running consistently at those temps. I think I'll be returning the fan. I did read having one helps with starting, reloading, and shake down to controll gases and fly ash, but definitely not worth the $150 charged for one.

Good insight on losing heat up the chimney. Has anyone quantified how much heat is generally lost up the chimney when burning coal? It must be less than w/wood by an order of magnitude.

rberq wrote:
JRLearned wrote:... to control burn rate based on the surface temp of the stove. I'm leaning towards an electric solution, using a draft inducer fan while measuring and controlling the surface temp with a thermocouple and PID controller.

A high-tech solution to a low-tech problem. I understand why it would be hard to fit the bi-metal thermostat to a Chubby, it being round instead of square. But a draft inducer might kill stove efficiency. Most of the wiser :!: folks on this forum use a barometric damper with a hand-fired stove, to keep draft from being too high. (Boy, am I going to get zinged now! :P ) So draft is perhaps .06 whether the air inlet is open a little or open a lot; you get a lot more HEAT with the inlet open a lot, of course. But if the draft is increased above optimum by the inducer, air and flue gases move through the stove too fast to give up their heat to the stove body, and a lot of heat is wasted up the chimney.
JRLearned
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: FrankenChubby

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: JRLearned On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:46 pm

I think what bothers me about the chubby damper is the lack of precision. With my Jotul 507 the dial is precise and consistent. I know its getting a certain air gap when its dialed to 1.5 that will consistenly run low at 350 or so. And I know when set to 2.0 it will purr along at 400-450, if I remember correctly from last winter. With the Chubby it's an approximation of 1/8-1/4 inch...ish. And, that doesn't account for warping and gaps in the thin sliding damper that adds more error to the equation. Get it wrong and your stove runs too hot while your at work and be out when you get home. Or, it'll die out if you set it too low or have less draft on a warmer day. Some of that (warm day issues) will happen with any radiant stove, but that's my point about getting a thermostatic mechanism in place.
JRLearned
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: FrankenChubby

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:48 pm

JRLearned wrote:Good insight on losing heat up the chimney. Has anyone quantified how much heat is generally lost up the chimney when burning coal? It must be less than w/wood by an order of magnitude.


From my calculations the overall inefficiencies of my system are in the range of 35-40% during the heating season, and a goodly percentage of that must be heat lost up the chimney. I figure that I'm beneficially utilizing somewhere between 8,000 and 8,700 BTU's from each pound of anthracite that I burn (from coal that has in the range of 13,250 BTU's/lb.). Coming from a formerly all-electric background, my best current guess is that each pound of anthracite that I burn displaces 2.45 KWH of electricity during the winter months. My summer efficiency for DHW only is far less than this though.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

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Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: warminmn On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:06 pm

A lot of the older wood stoves, and some of the new ones that are not air tight seem to claim 63% efficiency. That falls into your 35-40% figure if that means anything. I know you really keep track of these things as I read all the posts.

My coal stove claims to be a little over 80% efficient and i do think that is about right as long as it is burning slowly, simmering away. But when I have to heat it up to 450-500 I'd bet its closer to the 63%. I think it easily could be because more air is going into the stove so just as much is going out. With it goes the heat. Hotter air going out faster. Hand fired anyway. I know little about stokers.

But I dont measure much, except pounds per day that I use(pounds divided by days burning), so its not scientific at all. Just me watching it burn and enjoying the flame and heat, trying to get the most heat from it while I keep my butt warm.
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite. Soft coal
Other Heating: wood

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: JRLearned On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:47 pm

Suppose I purchase a hitzer assembly as featured in this post and suggested by Freetown Fred, what would be the easiest way
to adapt it to the curvature of the Chubby? Take the intake tube to an auto shop and torch cut the curve into it? How about the upper assembly w/the coil in it? How is that mounted?

lsayre wrote:Perhaps this thread is what you are looking for:

http://nepacrossroads.com/about10561.html
JRLearned
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: FrankenChubby

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:53 pm

JRLearned wrote:I think what bothers me about the chubby damper is the lack of precision. With my Jotul 507 the dial is precise and consistent. I know its getting a certain air gap when its dialed to 1.5 that will consistenly run low at 350 or so. And I know when set to 2.0 it will purr along at 400-450, if I remember correctly from last winter. With the Chubby it's an approximation of 1/8-1/4 inch...ish. And, that doesn't account for warping and gaps in the thin sliding damper that adds more error to the equation. Get it wrong and your stove runs too hot while your at work and be out when you get home. Or, it'll die out if you set it too low or have less draft on a warmer day. Some of that (warm day issues) will happen with any radiant stove, but that's my point about getting a thermostatic mechanism in place.

You can use the search box and try "vogelzang pot belly" or "bimetal damper on vogelzang pot belly" another member retro-fitted a bimet devise to his stove with success and also tightened up all seams and the sliding damper..there were many pic's with the thread as well.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:10 am

JRLearned wrote: Get it wrong and your stove runs too hot while your at work and be out when you get home. Or, it'll die out if you set it too low or have less draft on a warmer day. Some of that (warm day issues) will happen with any radiant stove, but that's my point about getting a thermostatic mechanism in place.


I had the same symptoms with my hand fed furnace. Barometric damper fixed it :D

As for the ad-1 I have one too. It also gets hot when left on for long periods. Another member on here wired in a different variable control that he says helped the issue.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:24 pm

If that housing comes with the 'kit", try making templates out of thin pieces wood to match the curve of the stove where you intend to mount the new air inlet. shape the pieces of wood until the fit; one each for the sides, top and bottom. Transfer the curved lines onto the housing, scribing them onto the respective metal surfaced following the appropriate template. Grind the metal housing a little at a time until you have a good body fit.

Here's another member's solution to making a hand fed work off of a thermostat: Design A Motorized Slide Control, albeit with electricity. Dallas posted this back in October of 2008. I remembered his solution and thought it was pretty slick.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: rberq On: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:12 pm

JRLearned wrote:Suppose I purchase a hitzer assembly ... How about the upper assembly w/the coil in it? How is that mounted?

That is mounted on a flat surface, of which you have none. :(
You mentioned warping and lack of precision in the sliding Chubby damper. I wonder if there is a way to get rid of some of the "slop" in the damper, and if that would solve your problem? But I wouldn't know what to suggest, except maybe somehow spring-load the parts and/or make a gasket to hold them tighter together?
I fear that it is a lost cause -- or would be ugly as hell -- trying to fit a Hitzer damper to your elegant stove.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: pine grove coal user On: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:17 pm

[quote="JRLearned"]Suppose I purchase a hitzer assembly as featured in this post and suggested by Freetown Fred, what would be the easiest way
to adapt it to the curvature of the Chubby? Take the intake tube to an auto shop and torch cut the curve into it? How about the upper assembly w/the coil in it? How is that mounted?

Take it to a local machine shop. They can measure the curve of the Chubby and use a milling machine or lathe to get the curvature cut exactly right on the Hitzer tube.
The upper unit is mounted by just two bolts. It senses the heat radiating off the steel of the stove. It would not need to be modified at all and would work just fine.
pine grove coal user
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: H. S. Tarm, model 202, 1983
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Reading 'bucket a day' stove in storage, waiting for attention
Coal Size/Type: Pea and nut mix
Other Heating: New Yorker oil burner which almost never runs, thanks to the Tarm!

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:24 am

Your going to need to cut into the rear/side (be nice if your chubby was a top flu), but either way, I think you need to seal the bottom door draft and make a new flapper draft in the rear (that's what I would do anyways, for whatever that's worth) :cry: The chubby's body is mild steel and easy to work with (no need to mess with the cast iron!), you can cut a square hole easy with almost anything (dremil, grinder, torch, drill bit and saw zall, etc.)... if you had a small welding machine ($79.95 at Harbor Freight) you could fabricate to make a flat portion for the flapper (you could even furnace cement the hell out of this fabrication if you could not weld it since the area takes little heat as its below the firebed and the cement would last a long time here, it would just look like a Farmer Fred Fix toothy (Fred's really a great guy... his initial posts only came across as harsh because you don't know how fun he is yet... just poke him back sometime like me :poke: )
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:30 am

Aahhhh, ya got me blushin this early in the week dc :oops: :out:
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: JRLearned On: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:24 pm

dcrane wrote: if you had a small welding machine ($79.95 at Harbor Freight) you could fabricate to make a flat portion for the flapper


Do you have any experience with a small MIG welder like the cheap one sold at Harborfreight? http://www.harborfreight.com/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-68887-8494.html It looks like it only draws 20 Amps max so it would work on a typical breaker channel. I've never bought a welder before, but I always thought something that cheap would never work well. If it worked well enough to do a butt joint with 3/16th inch steel, you'd think I could fabricate my own draft box w/ a curved flange to match the stove and then bolt the flange on the stove with some gasketing between the flange and the stove. (I don't think I could bring myself to attempt a weld on the Chubby).
JRLearned
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: FrankenChubby

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:03 pm

JRLearned wrote:
dcrane wrote: if you had a small welding machine ($79.95 at Harbor Freight) you could fabricate to make a flat portion for the flapper


Do you have any experience with a small MIG welder like the cheap one sold at Harborfreight? http://www.harborfreight.com/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-68887-8494.html It looks like it only draws 20 Amps max so it would work on a typical breaker channel. I've never bought a welder before, but I always thought something that cheap would never work well. If it worked well enough to do a butt joint with 3/16th inch steel, you'd think I could fabricate my own draft box w/ a curved flange to match the stove and then bolt the flange on the stove with some gasketing between the flange and the stove. (I don't think I could bring myself to attempt a weld on the Chubby).


The lil piece 0 crap at harbor freight will work fine (buy Lincoln wire), it wont be clean (but you can grind it up clean). These are not structural joints that take load so it would be a good first project for you ;)
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Where can I buy a bi-metal draft regulator?

PostBy: JRLearned On: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:59 pm

dcrane wrote:The lil piece 0 crap at harbor freight will work fine (buy Lincoln wire), it wont be clean (but you can grind it up clean). These are not structural joints that take load so it would be a good first project for you ;)


Thanks! I'm invigorated with posibilities now. :idea:
JRLearned
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: FrankenChubby

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