Glenwood Baseburners # 6 and #8

Gary1 · Post by **Gary1** » Sun. Jul. 28, 2013 2:04 pm

What are the BTU ranges for the Glenwood #6 and the #8? It's my understanding that the #6 has a 16 inch diameter fire pot and the #8 has an 18 inch pot. Are there any disadvantages to having the 8, other than space constraints, since they are capable of very low burn rates?

Post by **franco b** » Sun. Jul. 28, 2013 5:59 pm

At low burn rates, say 20 pounds per day I would much rather have the smaller stove. It will handle the smaller fire better with its more compact fire box and the stack temperature will be higher to maintain draft than with the bigger stove with greater heat exchange surface. The smaller stove will burn that amount of coal hotter and more efficiently with less CO generated.

At the upper end it would depend on just how high that would have to be. If I had to burn 80 to 100 pounds per day I would rather have the larger stove for its larger ash pan and greater heat exchange area. At 50 pounds a day the smaller stove would be my preference.

Though there is a range of burning rates that does not mean that efficiency is constant. highest efficiency is at only one point. Go above that and stack temperature will climb and go below that and less CO will be burned. The smaller stove is better at the low end but if it is needful to push it to very high firing rates then it has to be tended more frequently as well as emptying the ash pan more. There is also more probability of clinkers forming.

Though you asked about BTU ratings, aside from the fact I don't know but could guess. I do prefer the system the old stoves were sold by which is fire pot size which kind of implied how much coal you could burn per day with reasonable comfort in operation. The modern stoves BTU rating only mean that it is possible to achieve that if you fire it really hard. Cut the figure in half to be more realistic.

These are just generalities as you have to consider the system as a whole which includes the stove location, the chimney, and the type of house and size. If William or some of the other members with these stoves chime in they can give you better information as to just what they are heating and how much coal they burn.

nortcan · Post by **nortcan** » Sun. Jul. 28, 2013 7:12 pm

Hi Gary1 and welcome to the forum.
Franco gave a very good presentation about BTU. And he's right about new stove's BTU rating...
Can you give us the Sq. F. you want to heat and your location, house description...if possible for you?
Anyways these antique stoves can perform like it's hard to believe it and I was not, really not shure of that before I got my 2 antique stoves.

Gary1 · Post by **Gary1** » Mon. Jul. 29, 2013 5:27 pm

Franco b,

Thank you for taking the time to give me all this good detailed information. I'm learning a lot from you guys.

Norcan,

Thank you also for your help. Here's the info you requested on my home: We live in Easton, CT, about an hour down the road from Franco b. We have a two story English Tudor which I built 33 year ago. I'm heating a total of 4200 s.f. First floor is 2300 s.f. and the second is 1900 s.f. House has a full unfinished basement same size as the first floor. Exterior walls are built with 2 x 6 studs. Triple pained windows. 8' ceilings. 12" of insulation in attic which I plan on doubling. First floor has 6 rooms if you count the laundry room and the front foyerway with staircase. Second floor has 3 bedrooms, dressing room and 2 baths. House is "U" shaped, but the portion that is being heated is basically a rectangle 56' x 34' with an extension at one end of the house on the first floor so that the house is 81' at it's longest point. House is laid out in a traditional manner, not open floor plan like some contemporary homes. There is also a back stairway in the kitchen going up to the second floor. Chimney is at one end of the house. Unfortunatley, there isn't a really good place to put a stove. It could only go at one end of the house, in the family room, which is 32' x 22', or 3/4 of the way toward the other end of the house in the kitchen, which is 28' x 17'. The problem with putting it in the family room is we'd be sitting 12 to 14 fee from it and the heat might be too great, while the other end of the house would be cold. The kitchen would be ideal except it would have to go next to the back staircase and I'm concerned most of the heat would just go upstairs. Question: would the heat travel upstairs, then down the hallway about 10' to 15' to the front foyerway and then, eventually after enough heat built up upstairs, work its way backdown to the first floor? Please feel free to ask any questions you'd like. I'll be happy to respond. Thanks for your help...Gary

nortcan · Post by **nortcan** » Mon. Jul. 29, 2013 6:40 pm

A good way (but not the only one) is to find the warmer spot at the second floor. Usually where the stove would be placed on the floor below. You make a hole in that floor and place a nice grill on. The warm air will go up that way. But to get an efficient and natural air movement, cold air SHOULD have a path to go down,( the stair way is good but there are always 2 air movements in it: warm air over the cold air and sometimes that creates a sort of air separation), so the colder spot on the upper floor will be the place to have the cold air return register.
In some installations, a small fan/blower can help to move the air and get a more even temperature in all the house. Some houses have an easy path for warm air distribution and others need more

.

Post by **franco b** » Mon. Jul. 29, 2013 8:38 pm

With a house your size the amount of coal you will have to burn to heat adequately will be considerable, so think about carrying all that coal to the stove and a lot of ash out. I do think you should consider something in the basement possibly a stoker. What are you heating with now, what is the system, and how much fuel are you using?

With the stove in the kitchen the heat will rise up the stair and traverse the hall and return to the stove as a cold draft from the other stairwell. Doing as nortcan suggests will improve things.

Nortcan is very clever in figuring out heat distribution, but your house seems extra tough which is why it might be best to use the existing distribution system. Knowing what you use in fuel now could give a good idea of how much coal you would need to burn. I suspect over 100 pounds per day. Of course it also depends on how convenient your basement is to store coal and take out ashes.

A stove in the family room could be considered as supplemental heat with the central system evening things out.

Post by **dcrane** » Mon. Jul. 29, 2013 8:43 pm

how about 2 smaller units (one at each end of house), #1 heats main floor mostly #2 heats upstairs mostly (if your going to take the effort to burn coal anyways... buying bulk, maybe a bin, preparing ash area, etc.) its nothing to run 2 stoves!

Gary1 · Post by **Gary1** » Tue. Jul. 30, 2013 6:48 pm

To Franco and Norcan,

Before I respond I'd like to back up for a moment because I never explained what I'm trying to achieve, which is to reduce, not eliminate, my oil usage thru a supplemental heat source such as a stove or furnace.

I have two ThermoPride hot air oil furnaces, one for each floor. Each furnace has its own set of ductwork for hot air and cold air return. Separate central air conditioning for each floor via each furnace's ductwork. The first floor furnace produces 110,000 BTUs of output, which is more than adequate even on the coldest day. The second floor furnace is slightly smaller. I also have a Bach oil fired hot water heater. I burn approximately 1300 gallons of oil per year, which includes the hot water.

When I built the house I had a third flu put into the chimney, to be dedicated for a wood/coal hot air furnace which I intended to install, but never did. In this setup the furnace has its own plenum, and its hot air ductwork is tied into the first floor oil furnace's hot air main trunkline. It's controlled by a thermostat on the first floor, just like the oil furnace is.

Over time I've come to realize that I'd like to have a stove on the first floor to play and putter around with. I love the antique stoves, especially the Glenwood Baseburners. Not much fun puttering around with a furnace in the basement. Also, power outages render the furnace useless, unless you have an auxiliary generator, but don't effect the stove.

I know the furnace option would provide heat evenly throughout each room on the first floor, and therefore makes more sense, but, hey, why let a little thing like logic and common sense stand in my way, right??? Just kidding.

I'd like to know what you'd recommend in the way of a furnace that could be tied into my first floor ductwork. As for a stove, I don't know how much coal I'd be burning since I have no experience with them. I believe in William's video of the Glenwood #6 he says that a 5 gallon pail of coal lasts 24 hours.

Regarding Norcan's comments, our town building code prohibits installing grates in the floor or ceiling unless they're tied into ductwork. If I had a fire the insurance company would probably deny the claim since their inspection would show that I was in violation of the code.

I look forward to your response. Please feel free to ask any more questions you'd like...Gary

wsherrick · Post by **wsherrick** » Tue. Jul. 30, 2013 8:26 pm

After reading your description. I would recommend a stove with at least a 16 inch fire pot which the No 6 has. With the oak type designs of the Glenwood 6 or 8 you can still burn wood in them during the early Spring and Fall if you want to. However, you can operate a much cooler fire with coal as these stoves are principally designed for its use and have an unequaled efficiency rating when using coal. A base heater design is the optimal hand fired stove for efficiency and ease of operation. The base heaters with the internally suspended fire pots are perhaps the absolute best designs, but; they are hard to find in the larger sizes and you ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT BURN WOOD in these types. They are strictly designed for Anthracite.
Examples of base heaters with the suspended fire pots are the Our Glenwood Series and Crawfords. I just bought a large Crawford No 40 which I am going to use this upcoming year. There will be some videos about it to go along with the Glenwood videos.
I think you would be thrilled with a No 8 as these can be operated at very low temperatures and yet really crank out the heat when you need it. You have a large house and therefore need a large stove for it.

Take your time and feel free to ask any and all questions you may have. We will be more than happy to assist.

As far as your hesitation and apprehension about using coal is concerned. A few minutes here will allay all of your worries. Once you use coal and find out how easy it it is and how much better it is than struggling with a wood fire, you will wonder why you haven't done it years ago. Then you will kick yourself for not realizing it sooner, but; better late than never.

Post by **franco b** » Tue. Jul. 30, 2013 8:31 pm

Gary1 wrote:Over time I've come to realize that I'd like to have a stove on the first floor to play and putter around with. I love the antique stoves, especially the Glenwood Baseburners. Not much fun puttering around with a furnace in the basement. Also, power outages render the furnace useless, unless you have an auxiliary generator, but don't effect the stove.

I know the furnace option would provide heat evenly throughout each room on the first floor, and therefore makes more sense, but, hey, why let a little thing like logic and common sense stand in my way, right??? Just kidding.

I'd like to know what you'd recommend in the way of a furnace that could be tied into my first floor ductwork. As for a stove, I don't know how much coal I'd be burning since I have no experience with them. I believe in William's video of the Glenwood #6 he says that a 5 gallon pail of coal lasts 24 hours.

Because you have a good system now and wish to supplement that heat plus as you say putter around with something it makes perfect sense to install a good stove. Something nice to look at even when cold and there is no denying how satisfying the feel of radiant heat is. Running the blower manually from time to time should help to even out the heat if it does not make things too drafty. The family room is the spot. A bucket of coal is about 40 pounds so that or a bit more should not be too much of a chore and definitely help keep you in shape. You will also notice less oil burned. The second floor is its own zone and you might very well heat that first floor just with the stove. Not as evenly but with more comfort in the family room.

Selection of the stove should be something that feels good to you when you look at it. The Glenwoods you like would be fine with the 8 entailing more work but higher heat at the top end. I would favor the 6. For a better view of the fire you could consider going a bit older with one of the base burners surrounded with mica windows. Many of these still have the magazine feed which is a bit more convenient. For a little more efficiency I would favor something like the Crawford number 40 which William is getting(wsherrick). not quite as pretty though. Use the search function on this site for pictures.

I have not seen any hand fired coal furnaces that I like. I assume it would be tied in in the basement to existing ducts. I would rather have one of the stokers. You then lose all the romance of going back to those thrilling days of yesteryear but you would save on spats and a bowler hat.

You have not mentioned any money constraints plus or minus which can open possibilities or shut them down. Coal can save you money as fuel which is a nice justification but the chores involved should also be paid in the satisfaction many of us feel in tending that stove, feeling the heat and being free of reliance on a utility company.

nortcan · Post by **nortcan** » Wed. Jul. 31, 2013 10:08 am

You may say that I'm a romantic one but one other thing I love from my 2 antique stoves is the 12 months satisfaction they bring in the house .
During Winter time, the nice and steady heat (no start and stop system...) .
During the non-burning months, the charming look they have. I place a faux-wood fire and a yellow light bulb in them to create an "eyes catcher". Plus the light bulb gives just enough heat to get the humidity out of them.
I don't know why some guys here say that I love photos?

Gary1 · Post by **Gary1** » Thu. Aug. 01, 2013 8:16 pm

To Wsherrick, Franco, and Norcan.

I thank you all once again for your input.

William,
Right now I'm leaning toward a Glenwood #8, as you suggested. I like the fact that its versatile enough to operate at low temperatures and still crank out the heat when needed to handle a home my size. How much bigger is the fire pot on the 8 than the 6? I know its 2" wider in diameter, but is it also taller? What's the difference in the amount of coal each can hold at one time? Also, just out of curiosity, if you had a 6 and an 8 side by side and put the same amount of coal in each and ran both at 500 degrees would the 8 produce more BTUs because of the larger heat exchanger, but go thru the coal faster? If it produced more BTUs couln't you lower the temperature to, say, 400 degrees and produce the same amount of BTUs as the 6 running at 500 degrees? If so would the coal consumption then be equal in both stoves?

Are the terms base burner and base heater synonymous are do they refer to different types of stoves? How do the Glenwood Oaks differ fron the Glenwood 6 and 8s, or are they the same? It's a little confusing.

As for burning coal, I have no qualms about that. I understand all the benefits of coal over wood. I originally asked in my first posting on the forum about wood/coal stoves because I get all my wood for free off my own property. I'm not cutting trees because I need wood for my fireplace, but because I want to thin them out and open up the property.

Franco,
I'm leaning toward putting the stove in the kitchen for better heat distribution. If need be, what do you think of the idea of putting a door at the top of the back staircase? Now the heat couldn't go up and all the way around and back down. Instead it would fill up the kitchen and then move to the other rooms on the first floor before going up the front foyer way.

How would the 8 be more work than the 6?

You're right, I do want a nice looking stove to add to our home's decor. In addition to the Glenwood 6 and 8s, I also like older baseheaters with the mica windows on 3 sides. How do they compare to the 6 and 8s in terms of efficiency and temperature flexibility? I'm glad you mentioned the spats and bowler hat. I could definitely go for that.

Norcan,
Thanks for the pictures. I like your stoves and the idea of a faux-fire with a yellow light bulb inside.

Post by **franco b** » Thu. Aug. 01, 2013 8:58 pm

Gary1 wrote:Franco,
I'm leaning toward putting the stove in the kitchen for better heat distribution. If need be, what do you think of the idea of putting a door at the top of the back staircase? Now the heat couldn't go up and all the way around and back down. Instead it would fill up the kitchen and then move to the other rooms on the first floor before going up the front foyer way.

How would the 8 be more work than the 6?

You're right, I do want a nice looking stove to add to our home's decor. In addition to the Glenwood 6 and 8s, I also like older baseheaters with the mica windows on 3 sides. How do they compare to the 6 and 8s in terms of efficiency and temperature flexibility? I'm glad you mentioned the spats and bowler hat. I could definitely go for that.

I believe the door will help a lot in keeping more heat downstairs.

The 8 will be more work because you will carry more coal to it. Because of its higher capacity you will tend to use it for more heat, and at the lower end it will not burn as efficiently as the smaller stove with more compact fire pot. When you restrict the air in a wood stove you get smoke which is indicative of incomplete burning of the fuel. Coal also suffers from incomplete burning when the air is restricted but the incompleteness is in the form of carbon monoxide which is a flammable gas which can burn within the coal bed if air is sufficient or above the fire if heat and secondary air is present. The smaller fire pot will have higher heat internally at low burn rates. Both stoves burn best with a moderate fire but the moderate fire will be consuming more coal in the big stove with higher output. With any stove there is one firing rate where efficiency is highest. That point is higher in the bigger stove so if you burn say 70 pounds the bigger stove will do it with greater efficiency but at 20 pounds it will fall off faster than the smaller stove.

I suspect the older base burners are about equal to the base heaters but do require more care with all the mica and they are not as tight. The mica also gets clouded.

nortcan · Post by **nortcan** » Thu. Aug. 01, 2013 10:13 pm

I just want to mention that with a multi-mica stove and a Baltimore Heater like the Sunny Side, the mica stay very clean as long as you keep them burning at a minimum (say about 200*F) to a medium (350*F to 500*F) temp. No problem to go higher if wanted. The thing that is not the best with multi-mica is burning wood, even for lightning/starting the first fire. Starting a new fire is better with kerosene and charcoal and a few pièces of anth, like William does on the Glenwood's video, that way the mica stay clean. As said a multi-mica stove is usually not as air tight as a single mica stove. More mica means more doors so more chances to get air by-passing the Under the fire air path. But that can be solve with a few ROPE GASKETS

So if someone want to burn wood occasionally in a multi-mica stove, better to forget clean mica and multi-mica stoves.
Anyway, when starting a new anth fire, it's usually with the intention to have that first fire during all Winter long and be in the one match club

Also, having a multi-mica stove can means having to clean more Windows and is a little more work, just like having a nice Harley Davidson is asking for a few elbow grease to stay shining.

Gary1 · Post by **Gary1** » Tue. Aug. 06, 2013 1:30 pm

To Franco and Norcan,

Please pardon me for taking so long to respond back. Thanks for your input once again.

I have a few more questions. First, are the terms baseheater and baseburner synonymous, or do they refer to different types of stoves? If they're different, what is the difference, and which type are the Glenwood 6 and 8s? What's the difference between the 6 and 8s and an Oak stove?

How many lbs of coal does the 6 and the 8 hold if each are filled properly? In one of William's videos he fills his 6 up and it burns at 400 degrees for 19 hours. At the end of that time there's still coal burning in it. He says that by putting 10 more lbs of coal in it will burn for about 10 additional hours. I'm asking because I'm thinking that perhaps I wouln't need more than 40 or 50 lbs per day. It seems to me that if I had a stove running constantly at 400 degrees it would be more than adequate to heat my home.

How much ash is produced from a 40 lb bucket of coal, a quarter or a third of a bucket? Thanks in advance for your response...Gary

Glenwood Baseburners # 6 and #8

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