flue location help

flue location help

PostBy: tcalo On: Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:26 pm

So I decided to relocate my coal stove. The stove was wedged in the corner of the room when we bought the house several years back. Bad spot in my opinion. I don't have the proper clearances and can't seem to get them with the stove in its current location. I'm relocating the stove to the wall directly on the other side of the room. Much more room, a bit more piece of mind too! This room is dedicated to the coal stove so it doesn't matter where we locate it to or how far into the room it sits. My only concern is the location of the new support box. I cut a register in the ceiling last year to supply warm air to the West end of my house. Once measured out the new support box will sit just a few inches from this register. I planned it this way so it sits directly on the middle of the wall, didn't want it off centered! There will be a joist that runs between the two so I will have a few inches of separation. I don't recall the temperature that the upper half of the flue reaches, I know it stays fairly cool. I never measured the temperature of the support box during the burning season. Besides, the register is metal so no worries...I think! Opinions?

I also plan on mounting cement board along the wall behind the stove for a heat shield. I plan on starting it about 1-2 inches above the baseboard to create the air flow I need. The baseboard sits about 4" below the firepot. I believe the bulk of heat output takes place at or above the firepot, is this correct? The wall is constructed of wood paneling so my concern is would the heat from the stove affect the 2" of exposed paneling? I've checked New York State code and there is nothing stated for my specific situation. The code just states 1" above and below the heat shield need to be open for cooling, but it doesn't state where the heat shield needs to start? I also plan on anchoring it to a stud since there will be stone attached to the cement board. I've read not to anchor it to a stud, but I've also read a stud is the proper way to anchor a heat shield. Again, NYS code doesn't specify how to anchor it! I'm on the fence about contacting my local fire department. I do have a chimney company performing the work so they should know... :notsure:. Opinions greatly appreciated!
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tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: flue location help

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:06 pm

Your post should be a model of how to ask a question, it is so well done and clear.

The support box supplies its own required clearance,so no problem there.

With cement board faced with stone you have to support it by fastening into the studs. I assume at least 1 inch clearance to wall behind the cement board. Starting 4 inches up should be no problem since as you say there is not much heat there. You could also consider using some narrow bottom supports against the floor for that heavy board. Clearance to stove should be what Chubby recommends with heat shield plus maybe an inch or two to be safe. Maybe about 10 inches. You might need more to provide for smoke pipe clearance further up unless the heat shield goes all the way up.

The hearth most of us use really does not conform to the best standards but the proper material is hard to come by. What I consider safe is sheet metal on the floor followed by 1/2 inch cement board followed by tile or brick or whatever. Sheet metal because it conducts heat sideways very well. 4 ft. by 4 ft. is a nice size and gives clearance on the front of the stove and room for coal scuttle and whatever else.The stove should have a bottom heat shield as well.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: flue location help

PostBy: tcalo On: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:24 pm

Franco B.

Thanks for the kind words. The room is located on a concrete slab so I plan on laying new ceramic tile, this should be sufficient. The stove does have a lower heat shield so this should help absorb some of the heat directed downward. I plan on starting the cement board about 2" above the baseboard and running it to about 2" below the ceiling this way everything from the floor to the ceiling is protected. Of course also running it about 36" in each direction from the stove. The supports on the bottom of the cement board is solid advice. It may be overkill but I can't be too cautious when it comes to the safety of my family! Thanks again!
tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite


Re: flue location help

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:51 pm

tcalo wrote: Of course also running it about 36" in each direction from the stove.

That sounds like a lot and way more than you need unless you meant 36 total. See what chubby calls for. Those clearances were set up in a UL lab where they way over fired the stove so they should be safe.

You could consider an angle iron support on the bottom of the cement board to provide a lip that the stone would sit on to brace it instead of relying solely on mortar to hold in place.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: flue location help

PostBy: tcalo On: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:40 pm

So much for relying on my local chimney companies, it's like pulling teeth to get someone to answer your calls! I'm thinking about tackling this project myself. It seems pretty straight forward. If I rely on these companies it'll be winter before they get around to calling me back. I hope someone with some chimney experience could chime in and guide me. The present chimney location runs through a small section of roof, there is no attic at this point of the roof so I have nothing to compare the relocation to. Here are my concerns.

- I'm running a 6" flue and am unsure if there are specific support boxes I would need to use.
- I plan on removing the old chimney and would need to patch the hole in the roof, I'm not exactly sure what materials and in what order to use them. My guess is to lay plywood down then cover it with some kind of tar paper, then top it off with roofing shingles.
- I assume the new support box would get mounted to a joist in the ceiling. I would then run the double wall chimney through my attic...then what? How would the pipe get supported passing through the roof? Is there a second support box on the roof side?
- How would I finish off the new chimney on the roof. I assume seal the opening somehow, possibly roofing tar. Or does the chimney pipe need to have some space between the plywood roof and pipe itself? Then cover with tar paper and roofing shingles.

Am I close? Ok, maybe not so straight forward!
tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: flue location help

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:23 pm

Go to the Selkirk or other makers web site and download installation instructions.

You will see that they pretty much cover all potential installation problems and it is quite simple and effective. The 316 alloy seems the better choice for coal if available. Going through the roof is easier and cheaper than going through the side wall and being warmer as well as more direct is a better chimney. Without an attic I assume you will use single wall pipe down to the stove or if it passes through a room you will need insulated pipe there too with a ceiling support.

You will need a plumb bob to locate things.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: flue location help

PostBy: tcalo On: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:49 pm

Sorry, I botched the description of the location a bit. The old flue location passes straight through the ceiling to the roof, there is no attic at this point. The new flue location will be passing through a 3' section of attic then out the roof. I plan on using the existing double wall ss pipe from the ceiling up. It will pass through the attic and out the roof. Hope this clears things up. Just unsure how to brace everything, guess I have a little more homework to do. Thanks franco b
tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: flue location help

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:18 pm

Bracing will be by the ceiling support to carry the weight and by the roof flashing to brace side to side for about 3 feet extending above the roof.

You will have to get into that 3 ft. attic to play around with the plumb bob to try to find a spot where the chimney opening will not interfere with both the ceiling beams and the roof rafters. Sometimes one or the other will have to be cut and braced.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: flue location help

PostBy: tcalo On: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:36 am

franco b wrote:You will have to get into that 3 ft. attic to play around with the plumb bob to try to find a spot where the chimney opening will not interfere with both the ceiling beams and the roof rafters. Sometimes one or the other will have to be cut and braced.


So I have a clear shot between rafters and joists, lucky me! I've been told by the chimney company that the only concern with this location is the intake register. I'm running an 8" inline fan feeding the bedrooms on the other side of my house and they are concerned that it may pull too hard and cause smoke to be sucked in. My argument is I've always had this register without any problems, granted the stove was about 8' further from its new location. Besides, the flue should always be pulling draft...if not then I have bigger problems to worry about! I guess the worry would be the fan pulling harder then the chimney draft, possible? They suggest sealing the pipe joints with high temp sealer to prevent any leaks. Still on the fence about tackling this job myself... :gee:
tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: flue location help

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:47 am

Mixing or moving air within the space of your home [envelope] will not effect chimney draft.
Only another source of exhaust to the outside of the home can cause this...competing for whichever is the stronger force.
So, it is not going to happen by just mixing or moving. However, any escaped smoke fumes will get moved and mixed and transported to the bedrooms. ;)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: flue location help

PostBy: tcalo On: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:53 am

Thanks McGiever.
tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: flue location help

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:55 am

Soooo MG, will his sealing all joints remedy that????
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: flue location help

PostBy: tcalo On: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:03 am

The register has a fine filter in it. I usually shut the fan when dumping the ash or loading the stove as to not get any crap sucked through the house! It's worked great so far.
tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: flue location help

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:14 am

freetown fred wrote:Soooo MG, will his sealing all joints remedy that????


I'm saying, there is no problem.


Good to seal joints, but not because of the fan deal. I was referring to the escape from when the stove door needed opened.

Stove pipe joints more so leak air into pipe as inside pipe is negative pressure. ;)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: flue location help

PostBy: tcalo On: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:30 am

McGiever wrote:Stove pipe joints more so leak air into pipe as inside pipe is negative pressure. ;)


My thoughts exactly. Its physics! I figure if I run into a problem I can always move the register. I'd rather work a register around a stove location than a stove around a register location. Thanks for all the input. I best get my butt in gear, the cold is coming... :shock:
tcalo
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Coal Stove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite