Eric Holder to ease drug laws

Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:13 pm

As I said in my first post on this subject as far as I know it's a proposal & I still believe that's all it is, I do believe there was some discussion in both houses on this but don't know how far it got if anywhere. Like him or not the man is no dummy & brought up some valid points but that's all it was & once again got all blown out of proportion, he was suggesting changes to the laws not changing them. Whenever all these officials said they would not enforce gun laws enacted some considered them hero's, just like everything else if you like it it's good & if you don't it's evil for some but all in all ii becomes the same thing.
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:30 pm

samhill wrote:As I said in my first post on this subject as far as I know it's a proposal & I still believe that's all it is,


CNN may have it wrong here but it doesn't sound like a proposal to me.



They now "will be charged with offenses for which the accompanying sentences are better suited to their individual conduct, rather than excessive prison terms more appropriate for violent criminals or drug kingpins."

The changes are effective immediately.


ABC reporting the same thing:

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Pol ... d=19936282

People charged with low-level drug crimes could see reduced sentences under a new Obama administration policy that will be unveiled on Monday.

Attorney General Eric Holder plans to announce the change during a speech before the American Bar Association in San Francisco.

According to reports, the Justice Department will avoid including the amount of drugs when prosecuting smaller-scale, non-violent drug offenders. That will allow federal prosecutors to skirt federal sentencing laws that dole out mandatory punishments for drug criminals, even if those criminals are low on the chain of drug distribution
Richard S.
 
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:38 pm

Here's Holder himself saying it, go to about the 2:30 mark.

"I have mandated...."

That's not a proposal.

Richard S.
 
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:51 pm

As the head of DOJ, he can direct his prosecutors to charge suspects in any manner he chooses.

If he wants to "throw the book" at people, he can. If he wants to let people slide, he can do that too.

When the next guy is sitting in his seat, he'll do what he wants.
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:41 am

Then I stand corrected, rather than a law it's just a way around one & as always I think that's just a bunch of BS from either side. If there is a law it should hold true for everyone or it isn't a law, I know it's done all the time & that's the problem, a bad law should be changed by the proper method & until then (if ever) the letter of the law is just that. Once you allow personal opinion to go beyond a law then your sunk & that's why I disagree with some LEOs that say they won't enforce a law they don't believe in when they took an oath to do so.
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:21 am

Maybe Im misunderstanding, but isnt this alot like" jury nullification before the fact"? Only its Attorney General nullification? I feel that this is long overdue and woefully short of the needed changes to our "draconian/puritanical drug laws. The misery created worldwide by our drug laws as well as the amount of money spent on enforcement far outstrip any benefits. Make it all legal , spend the money on education , treatment , dispensing thereby eliminating the black market and most intercity crime. fund the whole thing by eliminating the DEA and a tax on the product , its so simple it makes me sick they wont do it :mad:

:whistle: "lets giv'em somthing to talk about".......
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: buffalo bob On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:41 am

the only way we will stop the drug problem is to make the sentence mandatory execution for all pushers....
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:34 pm

waldo lemieux wrote:Maybe Im misunderstanding, but isnt this alot like" jury nullification before the fact"? Only its Attorney General nullification? I feel that this is long overdue and woefully short of the needed changes to our "draconian/puritanical drug laws. The misery created worldwide by our drug laws as well as the amount of money spent on enforcement far outstrip any benefits. Make it all legal , spend the money on education , treatment , dispensing thereby eliminating the black market and most intercity crime. fund the whole thing by eliminating the DEA and a tax on the product , its so simple it makes me sick they wont do it :mad:

:whistle: "lets giv'em somthing to talk about".......



It is right and proper for a jury to nullify if it so chooses, but beyond that, only Congress (or the States, throught the Amendment process) can nullify coded law.

It would be a huge power grab for Eric Holder to arbirtarily obey some laws and not obey (or semi-obey) others.
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:55 pm

samhill wrote:Then I stand corrected, rather than a law it's just a way around one & as always I think that's just a bunch of BS from either side. If there is a law it should hold true for everyone or it isn't a law, I know it's done all the time & that's the problem, a bad law should be changed by the proper method & until then (if ever) the letter of the law is just that. Once you allow personal opinion to go beyond a law then your sunk & that's why I disagree with some LEOs that say they won't enforce a law they don't believe in when they took an oath to do so.


Is an unconstitutional law a law at all?
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:58 pm

lsayre wrote:
waldo lemieux wrote:Maybe Im misunderstanding, but isnt this alot like" jury nullification before the fact"? Only its Attorney General nullification? I feel that this is long overdue and woefully short of the needed changes to our "draconian/puritanical drug laws. The misery created worldwide by our drug laws as well as the amount of money spent on enforcement far outstrip any benefits. Make it all legal , spend the money on education , treatment , dispensing thereby eliminating the black market and most intercity crime. fund the whole thing by eliminating the DEA and a tax on the product , its so simple it makes me sick they wont do it :mad:

:whistle: "lets giv'em somthing to talk about".......



It is right and proper for a jury to nullify if it so chooses, but beyond that, only Congress (or the States, throught the Amendment process) can nullify coded law.

It would be a huge power grab for Eric Holder to arbirtarily obey some laws and not obey (or semi-obey) others.


I have to disagree. States can just refuse to obey a bad Federal law. The Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions did exactly that.

The USA was intended to be "bottom-up" not "top-down" government. The people are supreme, followed by the states, then the Federal government.

I realize Lincoln turned that on its head, but I'm talking "original intent" here.
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:01 pm

buffalo bob wrote:the only way we will stop the drug problem is to make the sentence mandatory execution for all pushers....


Stop the drug problem by legalizing personal choice.

Spain did. Several other countries as well.

What stopped the violence surrounding the illegal booze business? Harsher penalties or the 21st Amendment?
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: rberq On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:34 pm

waldo lemieux wrote:The misery created worldwide by our drug laws as well as the amount of money spent on enforcement far outstrip any benefits. Make it all legal , spend the money on education , treatment , dispensing thereby eliminating the black market and most intercity crime. fund the whole thing by eliminating the DEA and a tax on the product , it's so simple it makes me sick they won't do it.

Well said! :!: From drug agents to privatized prisons, there are too many people making too much money by putting harmless citizens in jail. It has become big business to incarcerate as many of us as possible. The judge in PA who was sending juvenile "delinquents" away, for profit, was not a lot different than much of what is inflicted on us by a for-profit "law enforcement" system. :mad: And that's before we even start talking about the international violence and misery spawned by our war on drugs.

I agree, it makes me uncomfortable when some laws are enforced and some are not. But to say that prosecutors should continue to act insanely and immorally just because there is a law -- well, that also makes me uncomfortable.
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:55 pm

jpete wrote:I have to disagree. States can just refuse to obey a bad Federal law. The Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions did exactly that.

The USA was intended to be "bottom-up" not "top-down" government. The people are supreme, followed by the states, then the Federal government.

I realize Lincoln turned that on its head, but I'm talking "original intent" here.


I have to agree with you here! States do not need amendments in order to nullify bad Federal laws.
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:17 pm

The question is just who determines which laws are bad, do you do it by personal belief, religious or popular vote? It's obvious that many believe many different ways so just how would it be decided which law is unjust?
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Re: Eric Holder to ease drug laws

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:34 pm

samhill wrote:The question is just who determines which laws are bad, do you do it by personal belief, religious or popular vote? It's obvious that many believe many different ways so just how would it be decided which law is unjust?


If it tramples upon rights and replaces them with privileges, it is a bad law. If it is vague and subjective it is a bad law. If it counters the Constitution itself (without amending it first) it is a bad law. If it involves finances and it doesn't originate in the HR it is a bad law. If it is anything beyond an emergency appointment done on a temporary basis via an executive Order, it is a bad law. If it robs from one group and gives to another, it is a bad law. If it involves affirmative action it is a bad law (since it is not applied equally to all). If it involves group rights (such as civil rights) as opposed to individual rights it is bad law (with the exception of States Rights).

Examples of bad laws include:
The Interstate Commerce Act
All of the several "Anti-Trust" laws
Civil Rights Act
Patriot Act
NDAA
Affordable Health Care Act

Some good reading here (take the time to read it all, including the links): http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/law,_ ... ctive.html
Last edited by lsayre on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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