Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: nortcan On: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:27 pm

Plus, one very bad experience you can get when a stove is not restored like when new: you paid a fortune to have the job done and you have to re-restore the stove by yourself :mad:
Have it restored from a recognized person or do it yourself if you WANT and have time ... to do it!
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: BEAKER On: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:45 pm

Hi Wsherrick, Greatings Nortcan

Well good looking out, thanks for the info. Man, The Antique Stove Hospital is a great site and a wealth of information. I really wish I could just have a pro rebuild this for me, the bottom line is I can not efford it, unless I was going to turn around and sell it and I think I will not do that, so Im stuck doing what I can myself and then maybe pay some one to reassemble her the way she should be build.

I do have a technical background and access to a sandblaster (I have already started that), I will prime and paint the black high temp stove paint myself after the welding (buy a professional asme welder, using nickel rod).

A local finishing company will plate the nickel for me.

The fire pot recasting is an issue for me, Im hoping to get some good guidance here or somewhere with how to go about getting a recasting for a reasonable rate, not sure about making a mold and all that. Maybe just buying a pot from someone would be the easiest route. I have yet to measure the pot, but it looks to be about 20 inches. Do you or anyone else hear know who I could contact about this?

At this point I have alot of research to do, I want my stove rebuilt the way a professional would do it, but like I said, I dont have the money. So Im going to turn it into a pile of junk :shock: just joking :D

I cant do it right alone, but with the internet and telephone the stuff I can do myself I will do the best I can.
And the stuff I cant do I will pay someone to do....that might include the final assembly. Hell I also still have to make sure there arent any major componants to this stove that Im missing :o Like how does this "coal shoot" mount inside?

So thats what Im thinking now, but that may change. Here are a couple more pics. What do you think of this approach?
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BEAKER
 
Stove/Furnace Make: co operative foundry
Stove/Furnace Model: red cross garnet 28

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:07 am

If you want a little peek at the 48 here it is minus the foot warmers and other decorative stuff at the front. Better pics coming... that's a fake light and it's not on the hearth.

Red Garnett 48

In the next week to two I will be posting pics of the assembled stove. Why not sooner? Well it takes three guys just to lift the damned thing onto the stand. Geez, what did they put into that iron? Uranium. Another distraction was I put in two support columns under the floor as I don't want it visiting the basement. This was a functioning unit up to the winter of 2011 in Rochester NY and I am trying to get it working for this winter. So I have short circuited some decorative nickelling in order to get it going. I was determined that this stove would not be a multi year sit in the garage restore and I want it going my mid September even if it not the prettiest stove on the continent. Around here things that get delayed get forgotten. This summer opening up of an old chimney and getting a Hitzer 50-93 going has been an irritating distraction. My wifes constant droning about "we need to stay warm first and play stoves can wait" has delayed things somewhat. That's enough for now as I will start my own thread when it's time. Good luck with the restore.

Simon
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

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Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: wsherrick On: Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:33 am

Any casting of parts should be done by Tomahawk Foundry in Wisconsin. They specialize in casting stove parts and most of the stove restorers use them. They are very knowledgeable. What ever you send them will be copied exactly. Casting a new fire pot by making a mold of the original one is common practice. It would be very easy for them to cast you a new magazine for the stove. I recommend it. Instal the new one and save the original as a master. I recommend that for any other parts you have re cast as well.

I read that you said the fire pot is 20 inches across. That makes this stove fall under the Latin Classification as: Stovus Gianganticus Gargantor.
wsherrick
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: None
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: None
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: None
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: None
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: None
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: nortcan On: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:21 pm

Beaker, did you measured the INNER diameter of the firepot's top?
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:44 pm

wsherrick wrote:That makes this stove fall under the Latin Classification as: Stovus Gianganticus Gargantor.

No question that it is a Stovus Gianganticus but I thought the Gargantor species had a double rotating grate in the duplex and this one has a single, or did this one precede the Ransom mutation?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:44 pm

wsherrick wrote:That makes this stove fall under the Latin Classification as: Stovus Gianganticus Gargantor.

No question that it is a Stovus Gianganticus but I thought the Gargantor species had a double rotating grate in the duplex and this one has a single, or did this one precede the Ransom mutation?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:17 pm

did this one precede the Ransom mutation?


errhmmmmm...


http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/mat/3977664086.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Mine looks like yours too.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: BEAKER On: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:24 pm

OK, I have missled you all with a poor guestamint of the diameter of the firepot :oops2: ,

what was a 20" diameter pot is only a 15" diameter pot when you look at it next to a tapemeasure, damn tape measures they tend to under exaggerate everything!! :mad:

Now that THATS cleared up....

Hey Wsherrick, thanks for the info on the Tomahawk Foundry in Wisconsin.

**Let me ask you guys, how often do fire pots that look fine end up cracking after restoration and fire up?** If I did not do a recast, would I be playing Russian roulette with a six shooter? or driving through town without a seatbelt on?

Thanks Fellas
BEAKER
 
Stove/Furnace Make: co operative foundry
Stove/Furnace Model: red cross garnet 28

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:17 am

If I am to believe the previous owner(s) my Garnet 48 stove has made it through the first 100 years without a liner burning anthracite. I would have to defer to our resident metallurgist (dlj) that iron when cast should be allowed to stand for some months ideally and if Red Cross did this as a top foundry this somehow would give the steel superior qualities. It sure feels different. A recast pot no matter how accurate would be inferior steel. Often sheer massivity is your friend.

I have measured mine again and it's 16" and so perhaps a larger stove number reflects increased BTU output. I have found a catalog of Red Cross kitchen stoves. I know of the upper echelon Ensign line from Red Cross (Barnstaplestove dot com has one to kill for) but I am still searching for how many Garnet models there were as up to this time I did not know they made a 28. As they made a lot of stoves I find this knowledge gap curious. Come on William you must know!
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: dcrane On: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 am

Wanna Bee wrote:Good looking classic you have there.

I have 14 inch Fire Pots being cast from a pattern that I supplied. Each one is going to cost me just under $100.


The money in casting items comes from building the molds or preparing. Wanna Bee did all this work for the foundry so all the foundry has to do is take his pattern and stick it in a box of sand. If you brought your cast iron into a foundry they have new and cheaper ways to replicate it using some plastics maybe (but its not going to be $80.00 like Wanna Bee) unless you made your own patterns prepared for the mold. Im sure wanna bee will be the first to admit what he did in regards to making his pattern was pure art and takes time and attention to detail that most people just don't have.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: dlj On: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:15 pm

dcrane wrote:
Wanna Bee wrote:Good looking classic you have there.

I have 14 inch Fire Pots being cast from a pattern that I supplied. Each one is going to cost me just under $100.


The money in casting items comes from building the molds or preparing. Wanna Bee did all this work for the foundry so all the foundry has to do is take his pattern and stick it in a box of sand. If you brought your cast iron into a foundry they have new and cheaper ways to replicate it using some plastics maybe (but its not going to be $80.00 like Wanna Bee) unless you made your own patterns prepared for the mold. Im sure wanna bee will be the first to admit what he did in regards to making his pattern was pure art and takes time and attention to detail that most people just don't have.


dcrane,

The costs of making the molds is certainly a significant part of making a cast part. But you also have to specify what cast iron to use - the range of cast iron alloys is huge. Wanna Bee would do well to be sure the foundry casts his parts to an ASTM A319 cast iron. For fire pots any of the classes and types specified in that ASTM A319 spec would be fine, although I prefer the better grades available in it. These alloys, especially the higher grade ones do add to the cost of the product.

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: BEAKER On: Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:57 pm

Hello,

Well all together this weekend I have spent about 7hrs dismantling and wire wheeling my stove. The only thing left to dismantle is the top nickel plated piece and the base, both should be a breeze compared to all the rusted nuts and bolts I had to grind off the stove itself. Wow! Talk about a dirty job. I must a found 10lbs of old ash and another 5lbs of rust inside the base of that stove.

I did manage to create one new break that should not be a big deal to fix, it is the two front panels that I am concerned about most.
Take a look, one is the upper main door frame and the smaller of the two is the lower for the ash pan door frame. Both of which my welders seem to think they can weld back together with little problem. I hope they are correct.
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After removing and cleaning up the pot, I found many crack betwean the fingers along with lots of pitting and melting spots. It does measure 15-3/4" ID at the top of the pot. Not really sure what to do with this thing. I did watch some of Williams posts on youtube and saw his refractory cement that he has on his pot. Im wondering If that is the route I should take rather than a recast??
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I was amazed how well they assembled this unit. This weeks goal is going to be completing the sand blasting of the outside finished pieces that will be painted or plated. Of course the painted pieces will at least get primed if not painted as well.

Coalnewbie, I do have about 100 pictures of the disassembly if you are curious about anything.

Well Im needing some rest. Time to catch some TV and call it a nite :)
BEAKER
 
Stove/Furnace Make: co operative foundry
Stove/Furnace Model: red cross garnet 28

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:30 pm

Personally, if that we're my stove.
I'd have the broken pieces welded back together, then use the repaired part to have it re-cast. Die grinder and some bondo to replicate the detail.
Reason being, the ash door looks to hinge on the repaired area. Even if you can get it to seal correctly there will still be forces applied to those parts daily when opening that door.

Otherwise, looking good :D
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Scored a Red Cross Garnet #28 base burner now what??

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:42 am

"Does anyone know how much my baby might be worth now (ballpark ofcourse). "

There are plenty of people who would gladly pay $200.00 as that stove sits! but after its restored I see these beauties fetching from $4,000 - $6,000, I will say these ornate 3 sided Mica stoves seem to sell for a lot more than 1 sided mica stoves.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

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