Can't decide

Can't decide

PostBy: cmk9180 On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:04 am

Hello all. I've sold my Hitzer 50-93. Wifey and I decided that we want a furnace that is controlled by a wall thermostat, and connects to existing ductwork. Between the full basement and the main part of the house, we would be heating 3400 sq ft. I can't decide what dual fuel furnace to get. I'm leaning towards the Woodchuck or the DS-Machine Kozy King. They both seem to be built solidly, and would do the job. I'd appreciate any constructive input.
cmk9180
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Woodchuck
Stove/Furnace Model: 4000

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:13 am

If you want thermostat control, you should get a stoker furnace. Check out this person's install: installing my AK110
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: cmk9180 On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:35 am

i forgot to add that the unit MUST be able to burn wood also.
cmk9180
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Woodchuck
Stove/Furnace Model: 4000

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:57 am

catalytic combustors (HATE EM!), I also get a lil' sketchy when I hear burns wood and coal equally well :annoyed: Must also be a beast to shake these things down every day (this aint' no lil fireplace stove and that shaker handle looks a lot like the Lever that lifts the train draw bridge over the Cape Cod Canal :cry: )

Your going to have fans either way you go... the cost is going to be similar either way you go... if you going to do this you might as well DO IT the best, most efficient, ease of use way possible... Everyone knows for living area I'm a handfired coal guy to the core... but in this case with a basement add-on whole house furnace or primary central heating unit the first call I would make is to Leisure Line and the second call id make is to EFM (If your doing this do it once and get a stoker whole house furnace). Its a no brainer!

EDIT: "must be able to burn wood also"... WHY? Unless you have an endless supply of hardwood handed to you for FREE why in heavens name would you put that kind of work, money, maintenance, bugs/termites, loss of land and sq' of your house, property and basement, and poor heat control of wood :mad3: Your going to burn wood and then burn coal and then your never going to burn wood again because the heavens will suddenly open up and your going to "see the light" (then your going have this beastly manual wood burning Sherman tank sitting in your basement when it could have been a leisure line or efm completely automated 90 percent efficient dream for the same price :nana:
Last edited by dcrane on Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:59 am

hmmmmmm, a wall thermostat controlled coal unit that can burn wood..... :gee:

I am drawing a blank on that.....
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:06 am

titleist1 wrote:hmmmmmm, a wall thermostat controlled coal unit that can burn wood..... :gee:

I am drawing a blank on that.....


Unless he has decades of split, dry, FREE hardwood dumped at his doorstep for at least 10 years... My brain does not compute either :doh:

I should also add that an old customer of mine in Pembroke had a DS-Machine add on and his basement was 36x26 which was stacked floor to ceiling with wood!!! (not just a lil' coal bin or sealed of 8x8 room to stack coal).... THE ENTIRE FREEEKING BASEMENT with lil' 2' pathways to get through! The smell of creosote, wood fire, smoke permeated the basement (people think coal is dirty :shock: no way!) anthracite coal is NOT bit coal (or the commercial plant coal dust used to make electricity). Get ready for the bugs and don't forget to add the cost of termite & ant treatments to your house each year (that has to be added to the costs of your wood).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:25 am

dcrane wrote:
titleist1 wrote:hmmmmmm, a wall thermostat controlled coal unit that can burn wood..... :gee:

I am drawing a blank on that.....


Unless he has decades of split, dry, FREE hardwood dumped at his doorstep for at least 10 years... My brain does not compute either :doh:

I should also add that an old customer of mine in Pembroke had a DS-Machine add on and his basement was 36x26 which was stacked floor to ceiling with wood!!! (not just a lil' coal bin or sealed of 8x8 room to stack coal).... THE ENTIRE FREEEKING BASEMENT with lil' 2' pathways to get through! The smell of creosote, wood fire, smoke permeated the basement (people think coal is dirty :shock: no way!) anthracite coal is NOT bit coal (or the commercial plant coal dust used to make electricity). Get ready for the bugs and don't forget to add the cost of termite & ant treatments to your house each year (that has to be added to the costs of your wood).


I should have saved a photo of how much wood is required to run a whole house furnace years ago when I looked at this DS set up... It would make folks re-think using wood as a central heating system.

Here is the pile of wood your going to need to store in your basement...
Cordwood supply.jpg
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Or if you like walking through 2 feet of snow 3 times a day, here is the second house you have to build...
wood house.jpg
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dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:24 am

i wasn't even thinking about the amount of wood or the work involved, i was just wondering about the wall thermostat on a hand fed......
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:30 am

titleist1 wrote:i wasn't even thinking about the amount of wood or the work involved, i was just wondering about the wall thermostat on a hand fed......


I believe they use a combustion fan which is regulated by a thermostat (this is akin to the old sugar shack furnace that fires up our maple sugar)... its either Hotter than Hades or Colder than a Witches ... with that fan cycling on a constant basis.
Whats harder to understand it how the efficiency and fan control can possibly work equally well coal or wood (I ANIT BUYIN' IT!)

EDIT: yep, just as I suspected... "Forced Draft--The 60 CFM draft blower is controlled by the thermostat in your house (thermostat supplied with kit). Advantages of the forced draft are quicker recovery and greater turbulence inside the firebox for better mixing of fuel and oxygen" .... these things (like a sugar shake) will burn up lumber at a rate that will make your head spin.. they use forktrucks and pallet jacks to "feed the beast" as shown here. and they say coal is dirty...
What kind of stove is IT???
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: cmk9180 On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:00 pm

Wow. Good pics. Perhaps I should've been more clear. The unit will primarily be used to burn anthracite. I split a triaxle load of logs with my grandpa every year. I like having a few cord on hand for shoulder months when you just need a quick fire at night to take the chill off, and not have a continuous fire for weeks on end. If you have a stoker and are very pleased with it, then great. My price of coal has gone up $20 per ton. Guys around here are getting out of delivering it. I'm not convinced that due to the cost logistics and politics, that I will not be burning wood permanently within the next few years.

I just wanted a few thoughts of those types of furnace. Thank you for the thoughts, and I look forward to your input. Thank you!!!
cmk9180
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Woodchuck
Stove/Furnace Model: 4000

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:33 pm

cmk9180 wrote:Wow. Good pics. Perhaps I should've been more clear. The unit will primarily be used to burn anthracite. I split a triaxle load of logs with my grandpa every year. I like having a few cord on hand for shoulder months when you just need a quick fire at night to take the chill off, and not have a continuous fire for weeks on end. If you have a stoker and are very pleased with it, then great. My price of coal has gone up $20 per ton. Guys around here are getting out of delivering it. I'm not convinced that due to the cost logistics and politics, that I will not be burning wood permanently within the next few years.

I just wanted a few thoughts of those types of furnace. Thank you for the thoughts, and I look forward to your input. Thank you!!!


well...ill at least give you my opinion on those particular units (if I had to buy one, id buy the Woodchuck simply because I know I did not like the DS my friend had).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: cmk9180 On: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:46 pm

dcrane:

What were the things you disliked about the DS?

Everybody:

What are you paying for coal? My coal man just told me that he raised his price to $235/ton plus tax and $15/ton delivery. :mad: :mad:
cmk9180
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Woodchuck
Stove/Furnace Model: 4000

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:27 am

235 isn't too bad. My supplier wants 220 a ton plus 50 dollar delivery fee.
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Anthracite

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: dcrane On: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:47 am

cmk9180 wrote:dcrane:

What were the things you disliked about the DS?

Everybody:

What are you paying for coal? My coal man just told me that he raised his price to $235/ton plus tax and $15/ton delivery. :mad: :mad:


I did not like the fact the house smelled (granted, a lot of that has to do with draft) but other things contribute to it (ability to remain airtight, load door engineering, etc.)
I also did not like how much wood this thing seemingly plowed through :shock: .
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Can't decide

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:31 am

I understand your desire to have flexibility to burn wood or coal. The problem is that anything made to burn both is usually "fair" at best with each particular fuel. At a minimum, the unit must have vertical firebox sides and a good set of shaker grates. Most of those hot air wood furnaces create a lot of creosote when they are run at low loads. You could let the fire roar and make it burn clean, but then you defeat the purpose of thermostat control.

Any chance you could take delivery of a TT load of coal? $250 "in the bin" is still cheap heat, but you could probably get a TT load for $180-200 per ton.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Visit Hitzer Stoves