Power venting under a porch?

Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: toolmaker On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:44 pm

I've been having trouble finding a place in the house for the Pocono.

First it was the garage, but that is full of machinery and has gasoline cans, solvent, and possibly a car parked there on the coldest nights. So it doesn't seem safe. I would need to deal with both my insurance company and local inspectors, and I think they would give me much too hard a time after it's in. When I wanted to put a small wood stove there eight years ago, the inspector said he'd need to check out the house if I did.

So then the choice became a small laundry room at the bottom of the stairs. After I cleaned it out, I saw that the propane lines come into the house through that room. It's a small, narrow room with exposed propane piping, a propane stove beyond the right wall and a propane dryer directly above. The submarine is buried about 10 feet behind the rear wall.

So I moved on to the basement. There is a perfect place for it near the steps up to the garage. Behind it is a casement window that I could take out. After that is underneath the wood porch for about 7 feet. There is about 18" of clearance from the ground to the porch, and after that are rosebushes and my front driveway. It is about 15 feet from my front door.

I read the powervent installation instructions, and it says it can't be near a public walkway and needs to be at least a foot (I think) from the ground. But I don't understand the reasons behind that , so I don't know about under the porch.

Is there any way to powervent in this situation? Pros and cons? Or thoughts about the other two locations?

Thanks for any responses. My frustration has become contagious to other individuals so I'm asking for help here.
toolmaker
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut & rice anthracite
Other Heating: pocono w/powervent

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:58 pm

First it was the garage, but that is full of machinery and has gasoline cans, solvent, and possibly a car parked there on the coldest nights


I can help by exclusion, inspector or not it's common sense, no open flames.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:40 pm

I once installed and had approved a hanging oil furnace in a NYC gas station. Pretty dangerous place.

The code called for an approved oil burner which is one with a bronze screen over the air intake, similar to what was done in the antique miners lamps. The other permitted way was to pipe the air in from outside, which is what I did with a sheet metal box around the oil burner. Your air intake could be similarly piped to guard against explosion.

I think you could vent through the porch but terminate outside the porch provided you observe clearances or use insulated pipe.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea


Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: toolmaker On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:27 pm

franco b wrote:I once installed and had approved a hanging oil furnace in a NYC gas station. Pretty dangerous place.

The code called for an approved oil burner which is one with a bronze screen over the air intake, similar to what was done in the antique miners lamps. The other permitted way was to pipe the air in from outside, which is what I did with a sheet metal box around the oil burner. Your air intake could be similarly piped to guard against explosion.

I think you could vent through the porch but terminate outside the porch provided you observe clearances or use insulated pipe.


Thanks.

So are coal stoves sealed except for the intake and exhaust? Or would I need to box around the whole Pocono, losing heating ability? I'm very ignorant on this.

I googled insulated pipe and got double wall pipe, which is very expensive. I also got 500 degree steam pipe sleeving, which is very inexpensive but not what I think you meant.

I'm thinking that attaching some Durock to the underside of the porch, running single wall until the end and exiting with six inches of double wall might work.
toolmaker
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut & rice anthracite
Other Heating: pocono w/powervent

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:38 pm

Your air intake could be similarly piped to guard against explosion.


Can I please be a fly on the wall after you have destroyed your house and are explaining this to an insurance adjuster. NO FLAMES or no serious flammable solvent amounts.... I don't care if miners lamps did this many year ago. You could always install a canary on the air intake and watch to see if it croaks.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:55 pm

As far as safety is concerned I think the Durock would be OK. The pipe is pretty cool that far from the stove. You could consider single wall stainless from the guy on Ebay. Stainless will rust also but not as quick and under the porch is a pain to work in. His pipe is 24 inches assembled so you would need 3 pieces at $37 or $111 with shipping, plus another foot or so. You must plan for easy running a brush through and a large mesh screen to keep out mice. You could also consider putting the power vent there on the outside. Actually that is the proper place. Direct vent goes by the stove and pushes the gas out while power vent goes on the end and sucks the gas out.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: toolmaker On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:59 pm

coalnewbie wrote:
Your air intake could be similarly piped to guard against explosion.


Can I please be a fly on the wall after you have destroyed your house and are explaining this to an insurance adjuster. NO FLAMES or no serious flammable solvent amounts.... I don't care if miners lamps did this many year ago. You could always install a canary on the air intake and watch to see if it croaks.


Okay, I get it. But we did have lots of wild canaries flying around a few weeks ago. I could have caught a few. Today all we seem to have are those huge red plumed Woody Woodpeckers feasting on a hatch of late mayflies.
toolmaker
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut & rice anthracite
Other Heating: pocono w/powervent

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:42 pm

About that 12" above ground statement...might that refer to min. height of where powervent terminates above outside grade???
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: toolmaker On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:21 pm

McGiever wrote:About that 12" above ground statement...might that refer to min. height of where powervent terminates above outside grade???


Yes, letter g below. What is the reason for all these restrictions? Is the exhaust gas flammable?

a. The exit termination of mechanical draft systems shall not be less than 7' above grade when located adjacent to public walkways.
b. A venting system shall terminate at least 3' above any forced air inlet located within 10'.
c. The venting system of other than a direct vent appliance shall terminate at least 4' below, 4' horizontally from or 1' above any door, window or gravity air inlet into the building. When venting oil fired equipment with a Field Control's CAS-2 series Airboot® kit, the intake air hood can be mounted within 12 inches of the power venter exhaust.
d. The vent termination of a direct vent appliance with an in put of 50,000 BTUs per hour or less shall be located at least 9" from any opening through which vented gases could enter the building. With an input over 50,000 BTUs per hour, a 12" termination clearance shall be required.
e. The vent termination point shall not be installed closer than 3' from an inside corner of an L-shaped structure.
f. The vent termination should not be mounted directly above, or within 3' horizontally from an oil tank vent or gas meter.
g. The bottom of the vent terminal shall be located at least 12" above finished grade.
toolmaker
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut & rice anthracite
Other Heating: pocono w/powervent

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:40 pm

Snow.

(Just a guess)
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:00 pm

The tree huggers added that one so the exhaust wouldn't bother the ground vegetation.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: toolmaker On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:23 pm

Rob R. wrote:Snow.

(Just a guess)



Then it should be 5 feet where I live! :lol:
toolmaker
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut & rice anthracite
Other Heating: pocono w/powervent

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: toolmaker On: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:27 pm

Lightning wrote:The tree huggers added that one so the exhaust wouldn't bother the ground vegetation.


How sweet. :roll:

I'm always willing to sacrifice my basic needs so that the vegetation can be comfortable.
toolmaker
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut & rice anthracite
Other Heating: pocono w/powervent

Re: Power venting under a porch?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:53 pm

Toolmaker you will fit right in here on the forum. I like your sense of humor. I have heard of people venting with about 30' of pipe. I don't recommend that much but Field controls says they can do 100'. Counting every elbow as 15' and Tees as 20'. As far as going under the porch I would recommend checking with your inspector and ins co. The pipe rarely gets very hot so I doubt it can start a fire but best to be safe. Make sure you are able to clean the fly ash through out the season for the longer horizontal runs.



edit The 1 foot to the ground is for snow.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer