Coal boiler bypass

Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: imaddicted2u On: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:30 am

I have a 1957 American Standard Severn coal boiler and a New Yorker oil fired boiler.
The coal boiler was originally a gravity feed system and has two each 2" supply and return headers feeding cast iron radiators.
The oil boiler is in parallel with the coal boiler and has a pump with 1" supply and return piping. The supply and return lines have a 1" X 3/4" reducing tee with the 3/4" pipes feeding each of the 2" supply and return headers.
I was cleaning the heat exchanger on the oil boiler and noticed a couple of wet spots as seen in this pic.
Image
I'm worried that this seepage will turn into a leak this winter. Since there are no shutoffs I can't bypass the oil boiler and would be left with no heat.
Is there something I could do now to stop the seepage.
If I was cutting the coal boiler out of the circuit, would it make any difference to feed the 2" supply lines with a 1" tee and 1" pipes rather than reducing to the two 3/4" pipes.
You can get an idea of what I plan to do in these pics, if the worst happens and the boiler starts leaking bad.
Image
Image
Last edited by imaddicted2u on Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
imaddicted2u
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: American Standard Severn (1957) on bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Unscreened-Fist sized lump to powder-Bituminous

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:16 pm

I would just cut the copper and install a valve in each to isolate the oil boiler if needed.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: Berlin On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:34 am

be sure to have a functional lwco and install valves as mentioned.

being an oil boiler, are you sure that those spots aren't tar? An oil burner not tuned etc. correctly can/will produce areas of tarry, oily goo resembling thin creosote deposits on the secondary of boilers; this can happen all over, or, it can happen in isolated spots.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal


Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: imaddicted2u On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:32 am

Berlin wrote:be sure to have a functional lwco and install valves as mentioned.

being an oil boiler, are you sure that those spots aren't tar? An oil burner not tuned etc. correctly can/will produce areas of tarry, oily goo resembling thin creosote deposits on the secondary of boilers; this can happen all over, or, it can happen in isolated spots.


To be clear, the pics are of the coal boiler. The oil boiler is at the other end of the 1" copper pipe.
I'm positive the wet spots are water.
imaddicted2u
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: American Standard Severn (1957) on bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Unscreened-Fist sized lump to powder-Bituminous

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: imaddicted2u On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:53 am

coaledsweat wrote:I would just cut the copper and install a valve in each to isolate the oil boiler if needed.

There are shutoffs at the oil boiler for isolating it but closing them will do me no good as it is the 2" piping the supplies the house with heat, there are no shutoffs to isolate the coal boiler and since the 2 boilers are in parallel, If the coal boiler leaks the entire system will have to be drained to either fix the boiler leak, if that's possible, or to cut the coal boiler out of the system so I can run solely on the oil boiler.
Here is a pic of the coal boiler. The pic of the wetness was taken through the top door.
Image
imaddicted2u
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: American Standard Severn (1957) on bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Unscreened-Fist sized lump to powder-Bituminous

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: blrman07 On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:41 am

Those are corrosion leaks in the upper part of the cast iron sections. No known permanent repair that you want to attempt with a cast iron boiler that is 56 years old. The leaks will not get better and will eventually break through and get worse. Suggest that you get someone in and put isolation valves in the system NOW. Otherwise it will go out at the worst time like when it's single digits outside and when the system shuts down, your house will turn into a Popsicle :shock: .
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:08 am

2u

It looks for all the world to me that the thing is leaking between sections as they are just press fit with a flared bushing. In all likely hood it will stop the minute the boiler heats up for the season and may or may not start again next time you shut down. Hercules boiler solder will stop that in short order, it was made for just such a situation. IN ANY EVENT, isolation valves ARE IN ORDER cause sooner or later that'll bite you in the ass :shock:

Better yet, buy on of the used refurbed stoker units that have come across the board lately. I saw a GJ the other day for $2800. ;)

Regards

Waldo
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:43 am

I agree with Waldo. Likely weeping between the sections. Isolation valves are a good idea regardless, and will simplify your future stoker install. :D
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: imaddicted2u On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:03 am

waldo lemieux wrote:2u

It looks for all the world to me that the thing is leaking between sections as they are just press fit with a flared bushing. In all likely hood it will stop the minute the boiler heats up for the season and may or may not start again next time you shut down. Hercules boiler solder will stop that in short order, it was made for just such a situation. IN ANY EVENT, isolation valves ARE IN ORDER cause sooner or later that'll bite you in the ass :shock:

Better yet, buy on of the used refurbed stoker units that have come across the board lately. I saw a GJ the other day for $2800. ;)

Regards

Waldo

Thanks Waldo.
It's was hard to get a decent pic but this one shows the heat exchanger area just below the seepage areas shown in the pic above. As you can see the leak is not at any joint between sections. I am hoping that it will stop once the boiler warms back up. I just want to be prepared for the worst case.
I hadn't heard of Hercules Boiler solder, I'll look it up. Thanks for the tip.
Image
imaddicted2u
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: American Standard Severn (1957) on bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Unscreened-Fist sized lump to powder-Bituminous

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: imaddicted2u On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:37 pm

The closest thing I can find locally to the Hercules Boiler Solder is a liter of liquid boiler seal made by Gunk Solder Seal. Is this a good alternative to the Hercules product?
Here is a pdf of the product info:
http://www.gunk.ca/prodsht-en/B232C.PDF
imaddicted2u
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: American Standard Severn (1957) on bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Unscreened-Fist sized lump to powder-Bituminous

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:19 pm

Ive used "gunk" products and they seem ok to me. Smitty would be a better bet on that. But Id guess its close though Hercules is dry ,and you mix it with water. If thats whats available I wouldnt be afraid to use it, But Im guessing The boiler has to be running. Still I emphasize , ISOLATION VALVES, and do it now when you dont need heat :yes:
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: imaddicted2u On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:03 pm

Thanks again Waldo,
I understand that the boiler sealer can't be put in until the heating system is hot and in operation. Since I can only isolate the oil boiler from the system, I plan on isolating the oil boiler, draining some water from it and putting the sealer in the oil boiler. Then I will open the isolation valves and use the circulating pump on the oil boiler to pump the sealer through the coal boiler. It's really the only way I can think of to get the sealer in, without draining the whole system.
I wonder what four 2" isolation valves would cost and how much room is required to install them. You can see in the pics, there isn't much room in the piping around the coal boiler for the 2" valves that would be required.
imaddicted2u
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: American Standard Severn (1957) on bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Unscreened-Fist sized lump to powder-Bituminous

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:17 pm

I would re-visit the area where you are cutting the plugs in. By my thinking, the plugs that you are to install in the top section, the two 2" supply side lines, they need to be between the boiler and the 1" copper. If you cut them where you show, you will not be able to circulate water very well. I would suggest using reducing bushings and installing threaded valves to make it easy to install the new boiler.
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: imaddicted2u On: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:40 am

Scottscoaled wrote:I would re-visit the area where you are cutting the plugs in. By my thinking, the plugs that you are to install in the top section, the two 2" supply side lines, they need to be between the boiler and the 1" copper. If you cut them where you show, you will not be able to circulate water very well. I would suggest using reducing bushings and installing threaded valves to make it easy to install the new boiler.


Plugs are going in the bottom lines (returns). Copper return to oil boiler stays as is.
Hex Bushings, not plugs, to adapt from 2" to 3/4" would be installed in the 2 top elbows (supply) after cut pipes are removed. Copper oil boiler supply lines get re-piped to the new bushings. Makeup water is fed to the bottom of the coal boiler now. That would be re-piped to a tee added to the oil boiler supply line.
I'm hoping I don't have to actually cut the coal boiler out. I'm just planning to have fittings, etc. ready, just in case I have to.
imaddicted2u
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: American Standard Severn (1957) on bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Unscreened-Fist sized lump to powder-Bituminous

Re: Coal boiler bypass

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:00 am

Sorry, my bad. After looking at the picture again, and not seeing the little note about the bushings and tee's, I see what you are doing. I still don't understand though. The only way those pipes are getting cut, is if the coal boiler is going to be removed. If that is so, why do you need to cut the pipes back to the other side of the copper?
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck