Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:41 pm

I was talking to a dealer who sells Alaska Kodiak hand fired stoves, and he kept ranting about the fantastic benefit (selling point?) of the Kodiak vs. the other hand fired stoves on the market, in that its "circular grate system" can't ever accidentally "dump a fire". Being hand fired coal stove illiterate, what does this mean, and how big a deal is it?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:02 pm

It means your hot coal goes into the ash pan. Harman hand fired stoves for instance have enough "travel" that if you are not careful when shaking down the ashes you can dump your fire. It's not a big deal once you know your stove and how to shake it down. Short choppy strokes with the shaker handle is what the doctor ordered.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:20 pm

Thanks coalkirk!

If the Alaska Kodiak's grate system is so radically different, would that make it suspect of not being as robust and built to last for the long haul? Do they have it patented, or is it unique because others see little benefit in copying it?

Which type of grate system would handle clinkers more effectively?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

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Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:36 pm

You can't have it both ways. Generally speaking, the grates that can't dump the fire have the hardest time with clinkers.

Some of the antique stoves had really nice grate designs.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: Dennis On: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:03 pm

the problem with clinkers is that they are larger than the coal and usually get jambed in the grates,then you get pissed off :taz: and jerk the hell out of the grates and dump your fire and the clinkers are still wedged in the grates :mad3: I have the roller grates on my boiler and I was in the hospital overnight,so my sister shook the fire and loaded.when I got home I checked the fire and the ash pan was full and to the bottom of the grates.She done good for keeping the fire going,she asked why it was so hard for her,she told me that she took the handle and done a complete circle with the grates.I better show her the proper way this year.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:25 am

Although the current manual for the Keystoker HFH-90 hand fired stove doesn't contain this information, I came across a scan of an older manual posted on the web for the HFH90 (and originating from the Keystoker site) which stated that the stove is actually intentionally designed to dump the fire if the shaker handle is pulled all the way forward. If they intentionally designed it that way, does that imply that there may actually be occasions where dumping the fire is a desirable thing to do?

http://www.keystoker.com/manuals/70000- ... Manual.pdf
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:28 am

I would say that it definitely implies just that.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:33 am

freetown fred wrote:I would say that it definitely implies just that.


Fred, I love your dry (or was that wry?) humor! Any ideas when it might be desirable to pull the shaker level all the way forward and let it dump?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:46 am

When the fire goes out and you want to cleanout the firebox to start over.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:05 am

Because a horizontal rotating grate has much more movement at the periphery than at the center, large pieces of ash and any clinkers will tend to aggregate at the center. To be able to occasionally dump that center gets rid of them. Also as Rob R. says to clean the grate for new fire.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: wsherrick On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:07 pm

A little trivia. On the Railroad to dump the fire means you have a serious problem with the locomotive. Generally you must dump the fire if you have allowed the water to drop below a safe level in the boiler. Dumping the fire is necessary to prevent at worst a catastrophic boiler explosion or at the least warping the crown sheet in the fire box. In my experience I have never had to do that, but; on one occasion the other crew on my engine had to.
A storm had caused some overhead wires to sag lower than normal over the right of way. As the engine went under the wires, the whistle was caught and yanked off of the steam dome. The rapid lowering of boiler pressure caused an imminent threat. As the steam vents and lowers pressure it makes room for all of the hundreds of gallons of hot water in the boiler to instantly be converted to steam. The boiler can't stand all of the sudden force of all of that steam and boom. No more engine, no more engine crew.
The fire had to be dumped immediately and the injectors turned on full blast to get as much cold water into the boiler as possible. Fortunately the crew at the time had enough experience and presence of mind to avert a terrible disaster. Any delay or indecision would have caused an unpleasant out come.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: MarkV On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:08 pm

I've always sort of assumed all newer stoves have some means of dumping the fire. Once I missed a hole in my stove's exhaust port before startup, and another time I lost draft due to combination of weather and bad coal. In each case, the stove was putting out CO and setting off detectors. A more seasoned burner than I might have known what to do to salvage the fire, but my first thought was to dump the fire and get it outside.
MarkV
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine DS-1500WH
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak bulk nut

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:27 pm

MarkV wrote:I've always sort of assumed all newer stoves have some means of dumping the fire. Once I missed a hole in my stove's exhaust port before startup, and another time I lost draft due to combination of weather and bad coal. In each case, the stove was putting out CO and setting off detectors. A more seasoned burner than I might have known what to do to salvage the fire, but my first thought was to dump the fire and get it outside.


Actually in each case it sounds like a draft failure. Even if you had "missed a hole in your stove's exhaust port" any draft would have kept CO going up the chimney. Next time you have a draft failure, instead of dumping the fire and hauling it outside (which sounds kinda dangerous to me) wad up several sheets of news paper and maybe some card board and throw it on top of the coal and lite it. Close the load door, open up your primary and secondary air feeds. It may smoke for a few seconds but then should find its way up the chimney and reestablish your draft. This should also feed your dying coal fire some combustion air from underneath and bring it back to a healthy state of burning, or it possibly won't if it has died down too much :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:43 pm

Nothing worse than that clinker getting caught in between a set of grates and the 20 mintues shake a thon that leads to inevitable fire in the ash pan. I found the nice short choppy actions with some vigorous poking in the coals is plenty of action for the handfed. Rocks, clinkers and inexperience will be your culprits for a dumped fire at least an unintentional one.
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Anthracite

Re: Education time (for me): What does it mean to dump a fire?

PostBy: oliver power On: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:27 am

Should you ever get a clinker, or coal caught in your grates, don't panic. Most times, simply leave it alone. Come next tending time, it may be burnt up, and gone. Don't jump on the shaker handle, causing damage to the stove. Sometimes you can poke from under the grates. BUT, lets say you get a stone caught in the grates. You have to let the fire burn out in order to dislodge the stone. That's when it's nice to be able to dump the grates, and start over. Oliver
Last edited by oliver power on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

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