Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: maurizziot On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:57 pm

I was doing my pre inspection and painting the box today, I found the grate was cracked in the middle
there was a crack about 4" long in the middle of the grate. the crack doesn't extend to either
end just in the middle. my question is do I have to replace and if so I think I should go to the 110k btu
grate what does everything one think. and how much is one about.
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maurizziot
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure line Coal Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer rear vent

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: tsb On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:07 pm

Use it. I got one just like it.
You might want to have a spare if you burn full time.
tsb
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: kstills On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:18 pm

Mine looks like that also, and it's been running most of the summer without an issue.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

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Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: Uglysquirrel On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:31 pm

Interesting crack location. Looks like the center holes top to bottom

It was observed that one of the holes along the fault line is plugged or at least not observable as a thru hole. Is that true? If true, has that hole always been plugged ?

Just interested to find why this set of holes does the fault line thing....;)
Uglysquirrel
 
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:02 pm

I am sure one of the Leisure Line guys will give you a solid answer. Me, I would run with it as long as the burn/ ash line looked consistent, and order a spare in the meantime.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:27 pm

2001Sierra wrote:I am sure one of the Leisure Line guys will give you a solid answer. Me, I would run with it as long as the burn/ ash line looked consistent, and order a spare in the meantime.



It will not cause any issues. If it does give us a call. But I doubt you will see any difference in the burn. Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: Uglysquirrel On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:05 am

Uglysquirrel wrote:Interesting crack location. Looks like the center holes top to bottom

It was observed that one of the holes along the fault line is plugged or at least not observable as a thru hole. Is that true? If true, has that hole always been plugged ?

Just interested to find why this set of holes does the fault line thing....;)


Maybe some of us don't care why this happen, though feeble me as a flight safety guy that does crack investigations on airplane turbine parts, you can see that the crack length on either side of that (what appears to be plugged hole) is the same. This is suggestive that the crack may have growth at equal rates from that hole, or non-hole, maybe from a OEM manufacturing issue (??) or plugged by something else like a tiny rock and not pushed out during some maintenance ? If this is true, the lack of cooling at this immediate area could have likely caused higher thermal distress resulting in a crack to initiate, at least that is how it happens in real jet engines. All this is not very important, just interesting from a failure mechanism and root cause perspective.

Possible lesson learned here is to clean those holes out if any seem plugged during interval cleaning shutdowns.

Agree that it's not big deal to use until the crack gets so long the two pieces will separate.
Uglysquirrel
 
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:17 am

Uglysquirrel wrote:
Uglysquirrel wrote:Interesting crack location. Looks like the center holes top to bottom

It was observed that one of the holes along the fault line is plugged or at least not observable as a thru hole. Is that true? If true, has that hole always been plugged ?

Just interested to find why this set of holes does the fault line thing....;)


Maybe some of us don't care why this happen, though feeble me as a flight safety guy that does crack investigations on airplane turbine parts, you can see that the crack length on either side of that (what appears to be plugged hole) is the same. This is suggestive that the crack may have growth at equal rates from that hole, or non-hole, maybe from a OEM manufacturing issue (??) or plugged by something else like a tiny rock and not pushed out during some maintenance ? If this is true, the lack of cooling at this immediate area could have likely caused higher thermal distress resulting in a crack to initiate, at least that is how it happens in real jet engines. All this is not very important, just interesting from a failure mechanism and root cause perspective.

Possible lesson learned here is to clean those holes out if any seem plugged during interval cleaning shutdowns.

Agree that it's not big deal to use until the crack gets so long the two pieces will separate.


The grates are cast locally here. Then we drill them on a CNC mill. Out of the thousand or so we do a year I have only seen very few actually crack like this. Suspect in the past has been very wet coal being dumped in the hopper and the water flows down the grate causing a rapid cooling effect. I am not saying that is what happened here just a theory. That was also the metallurgists' finding at the foundry on the samples we sent back as well. The holes can easily be cleaned using a standard 1/8" drill. I have not seen any really go past this point as of yet. It seems once the crack starts and gets through all the center holes it stops there. Either way we stand behind our product fully and if it causes any issues it will be taken care of. Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: ONEDOLLAR On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:12 pm

Flyer5 wrote: Either way we stand behind our product fully and if it causes any issues it will be taken care of. Dave


Now THAT is what I call customer service! A wise man once told me "If you take care of business, business will take care of itself." Dave is taking care of business. :D With all due repect to BTO! :P
ONEDOLLAR
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 2014 Chubby Prototype
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford #2 Base Heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:17 pm

ONEDOLLAR wrote:
Flyer5 wrote: Either way we stand behind our product fully and if it causes any issues it will be taken care of. Dave


Now THAT is what I call customer service! A wise man once told me "If you take care of business, business will take care of itself." Dave is taking care of business. :D With all due repect to BTO! :P


In all honestly the grate of a coal stoker takes incredible stresses and heat and the expectation should be at some point it will require a replacement. I'm not sure the age of this particular unit or the warranty of the grate (I don't know any stove companies that go much past 5 years on any grate, never mind a "Blast furnace" grate that cranks out heat like a Pioneer does!).

So it amazes me how the owners of Leisure Line Stoves take care of their customers, these are good guys, fair people who work hard building a good product who are conscious of making sure in whatever little way they can to keep American people and American business in work! :up: I've seen a lot in my years and companies like this make me feel good to try and do better!
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: freetown fred On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:39 pm

ug, if you want to analyze that crack--let's figure why 2 rows down there are other plugged holes, same row & then some---why are they also not cracked?
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:12 pm

If you want my guess it's because there is insufficient space for expansion so the center gets the stress from both sides, don't know anything about the LLs & how much space if any there is on the sides. A heat stress from a clogged hole will usually travel to the next & stop, before welding cracks on blast furnaces we would always try & spot check where the crack ended & drill a small hole to relieve the stress. Many times if you tried to weld without the hole the crack would just keep growing. No expert & don't know for sure but it was much the same for stopping cracks in plexi-glass & fiber-glass that were due to stress.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: maurizziot On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:58 pm

After further investigation of my grate, I typical will run an 1/8" drill bit every season. the back of the grate as shown does have
some of the hole that were not punched through by the manufacturer. also you can see inconsistency with the whole pattern if you look close.
I agree differential thermal expansion may have cracked the grate, also I remember putting frozen coal in the hopper, this may have done it
to. at of 130 hole two are plugged. i'm losing 1,400 btu ou put :D. i'm not looking for a free grate. the pioneer has been an awesome stove and doesn't owe me anything
What I am looking for is one of the three dealers I called would call me back!!! and when I do get someone they don't know any prices for up grades,
(ie. new grate, 110 btu grate, 150 lb hopper, would like just to call the manufacturer).
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Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure line Coal Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer rear vent

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: maurizziot On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:00 pm

second pic
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Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer rear vent

Re: Cracked grate in Pioneer should I continue to use

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:07 pm

I could be wrong but I don't think that cast can be punched even at high temps I'm thinking it would shatter.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

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