Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:24 pm

As was mentioned clearances were not right on that stove. Since that wasn't right, check the clearances where the stovepipe goes through the wall - make sure there's nothing combustable within 18" of that thimble (studs, drywall etc) ; looks like you'll have to do a little work there to make it safe.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: skobydog On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:42 pm

Berlin wrote:As was mentioned clearances were not right on that stove. Since that wasn't right, check the clearances where the stovepipe goes through the wall - make sure there's nothing combustable within 18" of that thimble (studs, drywall etc) ; looks like you'll have to do a little work there to make it safe.


Now you got me thinking. The current exhaust is less than 18" to the ceiling. :(

Image
skobydog
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:24 pm

Wood fires burn with very high stovepipe temps. You will never set the ceiling on fire with coal and that clearance. Getting insurance might be an issue. The other solution is a double wall pipe coming out of the thimble and turning down. Clearance are only 2 inches with double wall insulated pipe. You would need a T in fact as they don't make an elbow in insulated pipe. You could put the barometric in the T for coal. And cover it or remove it for wood. I personally leave the baro in for wood but that will touch off a major shouting match. Probably not a good idea in a terra cotta chimney and it would seem you have scant experience in solid fuel burning. Let the debate begin.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000


Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: grumpy On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:28 pm

Yeah your clearances are all wrong. You can do this, I think that will get you down to nine inches per national fire code. I also hung a piece of brass on the ceiling one inch down and put a half inch of fiberglass in between taken from a ceiling tile.
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Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: grumpy On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:32 pm

Getting insurance might be an issue.


As I tell people don't cut corners or skip inspection, do it by the book, because it would really suck if your house burnt down and your insurance company told you to take a hike.
grumpy
 

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: skobydog On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:54 pm

KLook wrote:The other solution is a double wall pipe coming out of the thimble and turning down.

Kevin


From a couple of websites I've found that "most of the double-wall stovepipe allows for 6" clearance from wall combustibles and 8" from ceiling combustibles". Looks like that's the solution....hopefully 8-)
skobydog
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:07 pm

Stainless steel, much maligned by purists, is used by a lot of us. In a vertical chimney chase, 2 inches is the code for an insulated pipe such as Selkirk Metalbestos. You would need to have it tight against the chimney unless the thimble is more in code then the ceiling height. This could be accomplished with a double male end short stovepipe piece. These can be found in stainless also. This arrangement would be heavy but it might all be held up by the pipe underneath it. With coal you have to screw all the joints together. This pipe is not pretty. I would use this arrangement as a last resort. It will be costly to lower the thimble to a correct height. All the heat shields and solutions will not be graceful or pretty. But they will work.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:09 pm

From a couple of websites I've found that "most of the double-wall stovepipe allows for 6" clearance from wall combustibles and 8" from ceiling combustibles


Note you said DOUBLE WALL and I said insulated. But that is fine, double wall is much lighter and if it fits the bill great. It also is probably a little prettier.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:11 pm

Check the clearances where that thimble passes through the wall. It must have clearances all the way to the chimney.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:11 pm

You don't want to see my neighbors wood stove install. She bought the house a few years back and I can only assume she has insurance, scary install to say the least. :roll: My install is through block wall with 24 inch to combustibles with a pipe that rarely sees 200 degrees, most time I can hang onto after the baro easily for a long time. I am sure I have a post as to temps if you want me to find it.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:32 pm

double wall connecting pipe is the simple solution to the ceiling issue, they do make it with T's and elbows, so I'm not sure why other posters think it's not available in those configurations.

What I'm more concerned with is what is in the wall around the thimble, did the original builders or installers follow code? If it were my house I'd be less concerned about a few inches short of 18 to the ceiling and more concerned with whether there is combustable material within a few inches of the thimble - It's not uncommon to find studs only a few inches away from a thimble (improper). Although code is 18, with coal it's more important to make sure it's 14,16,or 18 inches away from nearest combustable than 2" away - which IS a problem. I would tear into the wall (razor blade cut the sheetrock 18" all sides (except ceiling obviously) and see what's there before I worried about anything else.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:35 am

so I'm not sure why other posters think it's not available in those configurations.


A quick review shows the other poster did say that INSULATED does not come with elbows, at least the Selkirk brand. You added T's to the list. And I also expressed concern about what is around the thimble as it is not visible.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:52 am

The sheetrock is not an issue. In fact if it is type "x" it will give the wall assembly a 1/2 to 1hr fire rating depending on thickness. Wall thimbles also have a fire rating and depending on the unit the one pictured may be fine. The hearth most certainly is a problem ,way to narrow. Anyhow "clearance to combustibles" does not apply to type x sheetrock as it has a fire rating.
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Newb - Verify existing chimney will suffice for coal stove

PostBy: skobydog On: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:20 am

I just spoke with the local dealer for Selkirk. It looks like their DSP line will work this scenario. The DSP will reduce all clearances from 18in to 6in including ceiling. Although the cost is more than anticipated at least I'll be able to tuck the stove in a little tighter against the wall.

I'll still have to demo out the old hearth and put a new one in but I think I'm on my way. Thanks to all you for your help :)
skobydog
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite