Flight 93 Responders

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:39 pm

Ok, so I read it all. He offers nothing but ridicule for people he acknowledges to be smarter then himself. He offers nothing other then the gov. line because to a person like this, it is unimaginable that "his" gov. could be involved in such a thing. He is the same kind of person through out history that have been led to the slaughter because they refuse to question authority or motives. Why is it hard to envision there is a larger body of control then our elected officials? Why is it hard to believe that we are manipulated by the world media to gain certain results? Why is it that every time we vote for change(or hope and change) we get the same old *censored*. What happens when newly elected people get to DC? Do you suppose it is time for war to be visited on our soil? You have to keep people working hard so they dont have the time to question the way things are. We have to many idle hands and minds. Steal their retirements, steal their homes, penalize them for being industrious, penalize them for being thrifty and conservative. Create class warfare by intentional injustices against all parties and use the media to inflame the ones that normally sit back. (Whites, when is the last time a bunch of white people burned down their neighborhood to protest?)
Sorry, but I see it all around me these days. Even if the 9/11 event is not all that the Truthers say, I do not believe the real truth has been told. Just like Benghazi and how many more things our gov. has done and kept from us. Why? Because the electorate might not approve and it would be touchy telling them they were not in charge.


Well put..
grumpy
 

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:15 am

KLook wrote:Ok, so I read it all. He offers nothing but ridicule for people he acknowledges to be smarter then himself. He offers nothing other then the gov. line because to a person like this, it is unimaginable that "his" gov. could be involved in such a thing. He is the same kind of person through out history that have been led to the slaughter because they refuse to question authority or motives. Why is it hard to envision there is a larger body of control then our elected officials? Why is it hard to believe that we are manipulated by the world media to gain certain results? Why is it that every time we vote for change(or hope and change) we get the same old *censored*. What happens when newly elected people get to DC? Do you suppose it is time for war to be visited on our soil? You have to keep people working hard so they dont have the time to question the way things are. We have to many idle hands and minds. Steal their retirements, steal their homes, penalize them for being industrious, penalize them for being thrifty and conservative. Create class warfare by intentional injustices against all parties and use the media to inflame the ones that normally sit back. (Whites, when is the last time a bunch of white people burned down their neighborhood to protest?)
Sorry, but I see it all around me these days. Even if the 9/11 event is not all that the Truthers say, I do not believe the real truth has been told. Just like Benghazi and how many more things our gov. has done and kept from us. Why? Because the electorate might not approve and it would be touchy telling them they were not in charge.

Kevin



I believe 100% we did not get the real story. But some of the truther's stories are off the wall. The video that shows the tower collapsing over and over he states that there were explosions below the rubble. And he was sort of correct but the explosions or blasts of debris coming out were from the amount of material falling down the inside of the building. If a space gets filled rapidly the air has to go somewhere. In this case it went out the windows. The guy is a moron.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:56 pm

I'm pulling this because I cannot prove his credentials.
grumpy
 


Re: Flight 93

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:37 pm

Richard S. wrote:
LsFarm wrote:Ok, lets see. An engine for an airliner has several shafts, titanium, and huge titanium fan-wheels, steel gears, pumps, starters generators etc, etc.. these are virtually indestructable.



https://www.google.com/search?q=engine+ ... 20&bih=988


The central mass of an airliner fuselage is aluminum.. and not concentrated it is 200 feet long,


I'm talking about the connection between the wings.

Think of a bullet, lets say a 180grain 30 caliber copper jacketed bullet.. it's mass is concentrated in a single lump.. it is capable of pennetrating a lot of steel plate, a tree, etc. Take the same 180 grains of copper, make a 5"x5" sheet out of it, [roll it thin] and to the same with the lead core of the bullet.. put these thin, fragile sheets of metal that are very lethal at 3100fps when fired from a rifle, and try to do damage with the thin sheets to anything, even if you could enclose them in a vessel and move the sheets at 3100fps, they would not do much if any damage when hitting a similar target.. the mass is too spread out..


There is two variables here, speed and mass. As either increases so does the amount of damage it can do. A .22 bullet may not go through a cinder block wall but a train traveling at .1 MPH will.


First: speed and mass.
The concentrated mass of the engines will penetrate a concrete wall where the greater mass, but much less concentrated mass of the fuselage, wings tail etc will merely crumple.. just like cars are now designed with crumple zones to absorb the inertia of impact. A plane's wings and fuselage are roughly 95% aluminum.. only engines, landing gear, hydralic pumps and lines are made of steel or harder metals..
There should have been landing gear struts, brake parts, engine cores and a tail [empanage] remaining and recoverable. They are not there.

Just like the missing video tapes from all the surrounding stores, parking lots, etc, why not show their evidence ?? Even careful examination of the one video doesn't show the top of the tail of a 757, and it should be clearly in view.

What has been done, is a very carefully crafted and edited version of bits of truth, ignoring other glaring facts and witnesses, and since it was 'on the news' it has to be true, right??

I was home, watching the TV when the towers were hit. There were ON CNN firefighters interviewed, there were police interviewed, and while being recorded, there were explosions in the background, violent enough to make the firefighters flinch, and duck, yet those videos are gone,, gone that afternoon, I saw them several times before and just after the towers went down. Now they are gone.. very strange, and I don't believe it is an accident either.

We all get conditioned to 'believe' the news.. somehow we want to believe that we are not being lied to by the media.. but if we just look past the present and look back, to all the other lies we had been fed and believed.. like the Gulf of Tonkin, which started or was the excuse for the Vietnam war and ?? 50,000 US soldiers dead.. McNamara told us publicly, years later that the Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened..
Just take that feeling and knowledge of being lied to , manipulated, and bring it to this discussion. We are being lied to , manipulated with emotion, cherry-picked bits of video and intentionally not allowed to see contradictory information.. all to guide us to believe the media's version.

I don't want to believe we live in a country that will lie, manipulate, kill, steal etc to and from it's citizens, but we are here, and while for some, it's just easier to 'go with the flow'.. aka be a lemming.. but I don't like being a lemming.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: KLook On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:31 pm

I don't want to believe we live in a country that will lie, manipulate, kill, steal etc to and from it's citizens, but we are here, and while for some, it's just easier to 'go with the flow'.. aka be a lemming.. but I don't like being a lemming.

Greg L


And that is my reason.

Kevin
KLook
 
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:22 pm

I believe 100% we did not get the real story. But some of the truther's stories are off the wall. The video that shows the tower collapsing over and over he states that there were explosions below the rubble. And he was sort of correct but the explosions or blasts of debris coming out were from the amount of material falling down the inside of the building. If a space gets filled rapidly the air has to go somewhere. In this case it went out the windows


I disagree..




Turn up the sound for the next two.




grumpy
 

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:29 pm

Uh, what's a lemming??
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:35 pm

What I hear is one floor smashing into the next as they come down, the towers were truss floor construction & much of the outside was aluminum & glass. They even had to stagger the elevator systems because at the high speed that they went it would have caused a vacuum & partial implosion if I recall correctly. As those floors drop the pressure is going to blow the windows out. Does anyone of you realize how many men & man hours it would take to even begin to rig that for an implosion & how much interior damage they would have had to do?
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:32 pm

samhill wrote:What I hear is one floor smashing into the next as they come down, the towers were truss floor construction & much of the outside was aluminum & glass. They even had to stagger the elevator systems because at the high speed that they went it would have caused a vacuum & partial implosion if I recall correctly. As those floors drop the pressure is going to blow the windows out. Does anyone of you realize how many men & man hours it would take to even begin to rig that for an implosion & how much interior damage they would have had to do?


The pancake theory does not hold water, if it did the core beams would still be standing, what is so hard to get people to understand is the buildings did not collapse, they disintegrated , let me repeat , DISINTEGRATED. If it did collapse large parts of the floors would be found, nothing bigger than the key pad of a phone was found.

And what about the molten steel found flowing in the basement. To answer your question a lot, did you know they shut the buildings down the weekend before. Are you also aware the buildings were sick and had to come down? I'm not sure of the date but I think it was the early 1990 they came up with a plan to do it, the EPA would not allow a controlled demo, even it it was possible which I don't think it would be.

They would have to disassemble them, the cost was to be five billion. There was great opportunity to do this using this event, Larry bought the towers and insured them for acts of terrorism. He made billions in the claim. You have to understand how BIG the 911 event was, planes crashing into the towers is a SMALL part of the story. It takes years to learn All that happened and understand it. If I were a teacher and held a class for five hours a day five days a week for a year I could still not explain the big picture.

911 , the gold, the stock trades ( put options) the molten steel, the seismic activity , the warnings giving to a select few in positions of power (politicians) The tenants of WTC 7 like the SEC, can you say ENRON.. 911 was a masterpiece , it was brilliantly pulled off but with every crime there are clues.

Now that you guys have got me into this again I am finding new stuff and info. A lot of new video released from Nist under FOIA. I have something I want to post but want to see it first. And should any of you have questions please ask, I have spent the better part of the last eight years on this.

ETA, No Sam the the outside was steel and a hell of a lot of it, the fasad on top of the steel was Alum, thats part of why the buildings were sick. Steel and alum don't mix. sorry for the spelling.



grumpy
 

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:51 pm

The use of truss construction is having a outer skeleton of heavy beams, some lighter interior beams for say elevators & utility tunnels & shafts. The floor trusses then make up the floor support which holds the pre-stressed concrete, there is a saying in ironworking to never trust a truss & with good reason, once a few fail it starts a domino effect. The outer shell was mostly aluminum & glass as I had said, depending on the attachment means there could have already been a lot of corrosion due to dissimilar metals, aluminum have a lower melting temp than steel & most of the iron work was recovered. In fact they just mounted the beam that Erie got for their memorial as many cities got some, much was melted down for reuse such as some for a Navy vessel, I doubt any was exported but could have been if money was to be made. We had some structures imploded where I worked, tiny in comparison but it took weeks to set it up & included even partially burning some of the ironwork & there was a web of wires running everywhere, many man-hours & for safety reasons no one could set foot inside. You can't set up explosive charges & just walk away for days or weeks even if they could be hidden. Just my 2 cents worth from what I know from working in the field.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:02 pm

As far as there not being a large section of tail or anything else for that matter, how many crashes have there ever been at as high a speed as possible into a solid object? That's why I posted about the crash near Pittsburgh, no tail section & the engines were reduced to rubble & that was a smaller jet (I believe) & going slower coming in for a landing, in any event there was not much at all left. Normally any crash is at least attempted to be avoided & not full speed into an immoveable object.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:06 pm

And from what I know from working the HVAC field, no office drone is going to question a guy pulling wire as long as he is wearing a shirt with some official looking logo.

I am routinely surprised at the number of places I am left alone in. I spent all day today on the upper floor of a doctors office. Three doctors offices were wide open. I could have been doing anything.

If there is a locked door, I go to the office manager and they unlock it for me and walk away. All I have to tell them is there is equipment I need to see.

I guarantee the CIA could EASILY wire a whole building to blow in plain view of thousands of people and no one would even think twice.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:16 pm

The use of truss construction is having a outer skeleton of heavy beams, some lighter interior beams for say elevators & utility tunnels & shafts. The floor trusses then make up the floor support which holds the pre-stressed concrete, there is a saying in ironworking to never trust a truss & with good reason, once a few fail it starts a domino effect. The outer shell was mostly aluminum & glass as I had said


No Sam you have it backwards , it inner core was the support, if you disagree please provide this info, its out there. This is not aluminum and there was no pre stressed concrete, is was poured as the building went up, it was in the video.

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence ... cons4.html
grumpy
 

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:19 pm

jpete wrote:And from what I know from working the HVAC field, no office drone is going to question a guy pulling wire as long as he is wearing a shirt with some official looking logo.

I am routinely surprised at the number of places I am left alone in. I spent all day today on the upper floor of a doctors office. Three doctors offices were wide open. I could have been doing anything.

If there is a locked door, I go to the office manager and they unlock it for me and walk away. All I have to tell them is there is equipment I need to see.

I guarantee the CIA could EASILY wire a whole building to blow in plain view of thousands of people and no one would even think twice.

grumpy
 

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: Mark (PA) On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:39 pm

I want to concur with some of the folks about footage of events disappearing and so forth. This is something I personally witnessed... Small part of it anyway.

when flight 93 went down I happened to be working approx 30 minutes give of take from that location.

On the local news station that day they interviewed 2 men who were working in a strip mine right next to the location where 93 crashed. on this station those men (running a drag line and a large loader) stated they SAW 93, they SAW the fighter jet and a moment later gone. It was their whole hearted belief that the plane was shot down. They saw it happen, according to them...

This was on the 12 noon "extended Crash Coverage" local news for that day. On the 6pm version on this SAME station that footage was gone. NEVER shown again. Eye-Witness account maybe not to the liking of some...

To this day I've never seen that footage but one time. Why would they not play that again and even have it on national news?

Shrug? Certainly opens the door for speculation.

I guess while I am on it. I sure also wonder why there was NOTHING left of that plane of any consequence. I get that it hit at XXXXX thousand miles per hour but where are the engines or tail or wing piece. we have all seen plane crashes... Sadly enough. But I don't know if I've seen any quite like that with nothing much left?

All and All I don't really have an opinion either way. Least nothing I feel like arguing all that much about, but those 2 things have always stuck with me from this.
Mark (PA)
 
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