Flight 93 Responders

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:48 pm

I cant believe I am saying this but I agree with Samhill on this one. Just not buying this could be done without some loose lips somewhere. Looks like compression blasts. Especially since they are coming out of the center sections of the building probably from the elevators coming down which would explain the distance from the collapse to the puffs. I would also think that if charges were set to bring it down they would be concentrated in the corners and a lot more of them. I am far from an expert and am very suspicious of our govts motives but don't think the capability is there to pull this off.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:54 pm

Grumpy, here's a fairly good site for as far as how it was built, mostly as cheap, fast & with as much open floor space as possible. As far as the concrete it states it was a lightweight mix, normally the trusses have a bow to them which flattens out with the weight of the concrete & load weight, at times they even have cables under load as well that are then released after concrete is set to give strength, they may or may not have used them. As you can see the outer is the heaviest & then the clear span to the elevators. As it went up the iron work was reduced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructi ... ade_Center
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:57 pm

Flyer5 wrote:I cant believe I am saying this but I agree with Samhill on this one. Just not buying this could be done without some loose lips somewhere. Looks like compression blasts. Especially since they are coming out of the center sections of the building probably from the elevators coming down which would explain the distance from the collapse to the puffs. I would also think that if charges were set to bring it down they would be concentrated in the corners and a lot more of them. I am far from an expert and am very suspicious of our govts motives but don't think the capability is there to pull this off.


If they can keep the Manhattan Project and the entire town of Oak Ridge Tennessee a secret, not to mention Area 51, why not this?

It honestly wouldn't take all that many guys.

We know they are monitoring all the phone and internet traffic. If you KNEW and attack was coming(and they did), do you think it's possible they made sure the attack would succeed beyond anyone's imagination?

Why couldn't a "telephone repair crew" come in at night and work under the guise of running new line and not being able to disrupt normal daily operation.

Even as an HVAC guy, there are places we have to go after hours to avoid whatever is going on during the day.

Think about all the people that must be in a large building like that doing work daily. It's a huge number of people and the office workers would never question it.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:04 pm

jpete wrote:
If they can keep the Manhattan Project and the entire town of Oak Ridge Tennessee a secret, not to mention Area 51, why not this?

It honestly wouldn't take all that many guys.

We know they are monitoring all the phone and internet traffic. If you KNEW and attack was coming(and they did), do you think it's possible they made sure the attack would succeed beyond anyone's imagination?

Why couldn't a "telephone repair crew" come in at night and work under the guise of running new line and not being able to disrupt normal daily operation.

Even as an HVAC guy, there are places we have to go after hours to avoid whatever is going on during the day.

Think about all the people that must be in a large building like that doing work daily. It's a huge number of people and the office workers would never question it.


Anything is possible I guess but I just haven't seen anything enough to convince me. I do believe there are people who knew something was coming in our govt and I wouldn't put it past bush or Chaney . Not much of a fan of either.
Last edited by Flyer5 on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:04 pm

Here's one explaining the elevator system, flex & fasteners needed. http://science.howstuffworks.com/engine ... l/wtc2.htm
There are many sources that show of warnings given before the event that were simply blown off & ignored, I just picked one at random. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1156709
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:09 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
Anything is possible I guess but I just haven't seen anything enough to convince me. I do believe there are people who knew something was coming in our govt and I wouldn't put it past bush or Chaney . Not much of a fan of either.


When you take into account Donald Rumsfeld statement that we needed a "new Pearl Harbor" in order to advance the agenda of the "Project for a New American Century"(PNAC) you have to wonder.

Rumsfeld and Cheney were in D.C. since the Nixon Administration. The elder Bush was former head of the CIA.

Imagine the contacts those three have. Imagine the things they know and have seen. Imagine the number of people they have loyalties with.

Now imagine they wanted to advance an agenda...
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:12 pm

jpete wrote:
Flyer5 wrote:I cant believe I am saying this but I agree with Samhill on this one. Just not buying this could be done without some loose lips somewhere. Looks like compression blasts. Especially since they are coming out of the center sections of the building probably from the elevators coming down which would explain the distance from the collapse to the puffs. I would also think that if charges were set to bring it down they would be concentrated in the corners and a lot more of them. I am far from an expert and am very suspicious of our govts motives but don't think the capability is there to pull this off.


If they can keep the Manhattan Project and the entire town of Oak Ridge Tennessee a secret, not to mention Area 51, why not this?

It honestly wouldn't take all that many guys.

We know they are monitoring all the phone and internet traffic. If you KNEW and attack was coming(and they did), do you think it's possible they made sure the attack would succeed beyond anyone's imagination?

Why couldn't a "telephone repair crew" come in at night and work under the guise of running new line and not being able to disrupt normal daily operation.

Even as an HVAC guy, there are places we have to go after hours to avoid whatever is going on during the day.

Think about all the people that must be in a large building like that doing work daily. It's a huge number of people and the office workers would never question it.


You beat me to it jpet.. I'll be back tomorrow to reply to the rest of you guys..
grumpy
 

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:13 pm

I always felt that the DHS was in the works long before 911. They did need a pearl harbor for sure. I just don't buy the extra explosives theory. I still think the towers came down because of the planes. I haven't trusted bush since the patriot act.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:26 pm

Flyer5 wrote:I always felt that the DHS was in the works long before 911. They did need a pearl harbor for sure. I just don't buy the extra explosives theory. I still think the towers came down because of the planes. I haven't trusted bush since the patriot act.


if fire was the cause of the collapse, why didn't the north(?) tower collapse in 1979 when SEVERAL floors were fully involved for HOURS?

Jet fuel can't be the only difference. Those big fireballs on impact was most of that fuel going up.
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:38 am

Lightning wrote:Uh, what's a lemming??


A derogatory term used to reference a person who seemingly does not possess any form of individual thought, and instead, mindlessly follows the behaviors and actions of the masses.

Common actions lemmings partake in are the overuse of catch phrases and lingo that the generation may overuse.

:lol: :P
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:52 am

The 70 attempt was confined to the garage area (once again if I recall correctly), if you look at the building construction naturally the lower the stronger. I even seem to recall at that time it was mentioned that the only way to bring the towers down would be with a jet flown into the upper floors. Let's even say that the building was somehow rigged with most likely tons of plastic explosives, det cord & all the wiring that would be needed that would be needed in a short order without ever being noticed & no one ever saying anything after all these years. Then instead of a command post to set off the highly synchronized firing of said charges they then choose to use jets crashed into the towers as a match or electrical current to be what sets off the charges in the proper order, I think someone isn't using common sense & allowing emotions & mistrust to impede rational thought. Just my two cents worth, I know everyone will believe what they do & ignore any evidence to the contrary if favor of hearsay. :cry:
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:39 pm

samhill wrote:As far as there not being a large section of tail or anything else for that matter, how many crashes have there ever been at as high a speed as possible into a solid object? That's why I posted about the crash near Pittsburgh, no tail section & the engines were reduced to rubble & that was a smaller jet (I believe) & going slower coming in for a landing, in any event there was not much at all left. Normally any crash is at least attempted to be avoided & not full speed into an immoveable object.



In virtually EVERY crash there are parts, pieces and sections of the plane and engine that survive. ALL parts on an airplane have part numbers. Read up on flight 191 out in Iowa, they recovered the #2 engine fan about a year or two later in a farmer's field, and from the part numbers, discovered and traced the cause of the engine failure.
There have been two or three total, catastrophic crashes of Boing 737's, they had a wierd propblem with their rudder hydraulic controls, it would do a full 'hard-over' that was not controllable by the pilot..
One going into Colorado springs, and a better known one landing at Pittsburg, crashed 5-10 miles east of the Airport. The pilots lost control of the plane and it went virtually straight in. a near vertical crash.. yet they found engines, and parts of the hydraulic system to trace the cause of the loss of control..

NONE of this careful, meticulous work was done at the Pentagon, no confirming the plane registration, ownership etc etc.. why?? because the 'story' was the 'proof' any thing else would disprove 'the story'.

OK, the towers, again. WHY was there NO investigation of the steel?? any of the remains of the building's structure ?? Where is the archive of samples of the steel, the fire insulation, the failed rivets,, ANYTHING to back up and prove or support the theory that the 'paid' engineers published about the cause of the collapse ??
Why have steel structures all over the world burned for DAYS and not collapsed, not one imploded tower, not one sagging 'truss' or beam that pulled rivets or sheared rivets, pulled in other steel parts and caused a progressive collapse ?????????
Because the 'explanation' by the 'not-paid' experts is all just a 'story'.. the since it is called the 'official' story, it is believed..

The building collapse should have been thoroughly investigated, and there should be samples of the steel, the melted puddles that were reported, but never saved, or publicly shown stored for metallurgical analysis, Just like the TWA flight 800, just like virtually every other building collapse.
So, what was the construction method and design of the third building: Building 7, that mysteriously was vacant, even though it held the emergency control room and bomb shelter for the Mayor of the city.. VACANT.. all morning and day... and it had a little wisp of smoke,, and then, collapsed from the center of the roof inward [seen on remaining videos] all a near perfect implosion into the building's footprint or basement.. another coincidence ??
How many coincidences does it take to make you start to scratch your head and say ' REALLY ?? '

OK, remember the collapse of the balcony during a party in a building in I think St Louis ?? about 20 years ago ?? That got so much investigation it had it's own show on 'history' or A&E. a THOROUGH investigation. NOT a bunch of unsubstantiated theory, but proof with parts and pieces to show the actual parts that failed.. WHERE is this PROOF for the collapse of the towers ?? GONE, hidden and disposed of. Never seen by an engineer or metallurgical chemist or engineer..

OK my fingers are tired. I guess if you like living with wool pulled over your eyes, then that is your 'comfort zone'' enjoy it.

Greg L
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Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:09 pm

The 70 attempt was confined to the garage area


If your talking about the bombing I believe that was 1993, it did a hell of a lot of damage yet the building did not fall over.

In 1975 the WTC suffered a very serious fire and still did not fall.

"It was like fighting a blow torch" according to Captain Harold Kull of Engine Co. 6,........
Flames could be seen pouring out of 11th floor windows on the east side of the building.

It should be emphasized that the North Tower suffered no serious structural damage from this fire. In particular, no trusses needed to be replaced.

That the 1975 fire was more intense than the 9/11 fires is evident from the fact that it caused the 11th floor east side windows to break and flames could be seen pouring from these broken windows. This indicates a temperature greater than 700°C. In the 9/11 fires the windows were not broken by the heat (only by the aircraft impact) indicating a temperature below 700°C.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... _fire.html There are many other sources to look at.

I even seem to recall at that time it was mentioned that the only way to bring the towers down would be with a jet flown into the upper floors.



Quote:"...architect Minoru Yamasaki designed the World Trade Center towers to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707 airplane (Federal Emergency Management Agency 2002). The Boeing 707 is similar to the Boeing 767s that actually crashed into the towers, the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and slower. The impact from the plane that hit Tower One was well within the force limits of the design and the impact from the second plane was only ten percent above the force that Tower Two was designed to absorb (“Nerdcities: The Guardian” 2002). So, from an engineering perspective, the World Trade Center towers, at least Tower One, should have been able to withstand the collisions on September 11th..."

-Vikas Agrawal (science-writing.org)




Let's even say that the building was somehow rigged with most likely tons of plastic explosives, det cord & all the wiring that would be needed that would be needed in a short order without ever being noticed & no one ever saying anything after all these years.


Yes that could have been done, however it would not be necessary, wireless detonators have been around for a long time. Furthermore who said conventional explosives were used, IMO they were not.

Then instead of a command post to set off the highly synchronized firing of said charges they then choose to use jets crashed into the towers as a match or electrical current to be what sets off the charges in the proper order



If there was a command center I would suggest it was WTC 7, it would make sense and thats why it was destroyed.

I don't beleive the planes and the demo were connected, we KNOW the fires were out, plenty to support that.







There are many other examples. The building that suffered the least damage and burned the shortest time fell first,hum..
grumpy
 

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:28 pm

Bet ya did not know about this either.


Persecuted FEMA 9-11 Photographer Fights Extradition

Descending with a special task force to investigate, Sonnenfeld found the badly damaged steel door to the vault with a combination code keypad in the cinderblock wall beside it. But the wall was crumbled, and the door was sprung partially open. Checking inside with flashlights, they saw it had been emptied and knew that because of the necessity of a large truck to accomplish this and the utter impossibility of one now getting through the traffic and police blockade, the removal had to have occurred beforehand.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/f ... r_243.html

grumpy
 

Re: Flight 93

PostBy: grumpy On: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:15 pm

This just out and worth a look....

Invoking the lost ones and the families left behind is a common tactic to shame anyone for questioning the official story. Age old tactic.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 28rnA#t=68
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