New Old Crane 404 Stove

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ONEDOLLAR On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:21 pm

MA

Your 666th post here on NEPA and you make a slim "referance" to the band KISS? dodododododo :twisted: :evil:

I feel his pain as well. It can be hard to shake the woodburner mentality....
ONEDOLLAR
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 2014 Chubby Prototype
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford #2 Base Heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:48 pm

Well she's back up and running... Got her going steady at 550. Just enough to knock the chill out of the air. The sad part is I'm out of coal! So I'll let her burn out from here clean down the stove and wait for the cold weather.

Coal delivery should be at the end of October. :D
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ONEDOLLAR On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:51 pm

ASH

Don't be shy about filling her up once you start the stove or after shaking down. Coal is slow and lazy but once going it chugs along just fine. As always people here on NEPA are to help. You have my number as well.
ONEDOLLAR
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 2014 Chubby Prototype
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford #2 Base Heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:16 pm

ONEDOLLAR wrote:ASH

Don't be shy about filling her up once you start the stove or after shaking down. Coal is slow and lazy but once going it chugs along just fine. As always people here on NEPA are to help. You have my number as well.


Thanks ONEDOLLAR - Now I just need my winter supply to show up! I'll give the supplier a phone call tomorrow.
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:46 am

Had an overnight burn going last night but managed to suffocate it out. I had the stove burning a consistent 650d on the top of the stove but when I woke up this morning I had a nice bed of unburnt/red coals... So I had to get her going again this morning. I must have had the air not opened up enough, but I feel like if I were to open up the air more I would over fire the stove. I had her going strong from 8pm to 10pm.. then went to bed. Woke up at 7 and she was out...

I'm sure I'll figure it out.... any suggestions? :?: :?: :?:
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:20 am

ASHDUMP wrote:Had an overnight burn going last night but managed to suffocate it out. I had the stove burning a consistent 650d on the top of the stove but when I woke up this morning I had a nice bed of unburnt/red coals... So I had to get her going again this morning. I must have had the air not opened up enough, but I feel like if I were to open up the air more I would over fire the stove. I had her going strong from 8pm to 10pm.. then went to bed. Woke up at 7 and she was out...

I'm sure I'll figure it out.... any suggestions? :?: :?: :?:


maintaining a 650 stove top temp seems pretty unlikely you suffocated it :gee: did you spin the dials closed just before bed or did you leave it exactly as it was when maintaining the 650? I personally keep my 404 dials open literally 1/4 - 1/2 turn each (depending on temps outside), I then adjust my MPD accordingly from their (if it cold its closed, if its warm its more open), I suggest prior to you going to bed that you do your shake down good (I use a hooked fireplace iron as a slicer and I open bottom door and I slice the underside of the grate on either end and once in middle), I use the iron also to push down on the coal bed from top door to "settle" the bed onto the grate nicely, I then give an aggressive 30 seconds of shaking. I then load it up to the gills and bank the coal against that rear removable damper like a mountain... (I will say that bottom door stays open a few minutes while I empty ash pan and when I load her up she's hot and shes got air coming through because of my slice and open MPD during all this stage).

Im sure some other have their own lil' tricks as well and you will indeed find yours very soon! take a photo of the unburned coal next time for kicks and does your MPD have some kind of holes in it (meaning its never fully blocking off the draft?)
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:21 am

I checked your last photo to see if you had a manometer and I could not, I think one is in order. Maybe you could borrow one from a close forum member. Your fire seems to be going gang busters at first with all the new coal and then a lack of draft allowing it to fizzle...just one thought, with out knowing your draft we need to use process of elimination.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:24 am

michaelanthony wrote:I checked your last photo to see if you had a manometer and I could not, I think one is in order. Maybe you could borrow one from a close forum member. Your fire seems to be going gang busters at first with all the new coal and then a lack of draft allowing it to fizzle...just one thought, with out knowing your draft we need to use process of elimination.


see... ideas are good and this is a good one! I happen to know my draft is fantastic... you should know yours.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: Short Bus On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:27 am

For quickie manometer maybe this, Isayre posted a good link. extreem low cost, quicky, manometer
Second half of first post was my best idea, first half was musings.
Short Bus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kewanee boiler with Anchor stoker
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut / Sub-bituminous C
Other Heating: Propane wall furnace back up only

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:43 am

I suppose my draft could be weak and I guess only time will tell as I'm really new at this. My damper has holes that allow air to pass thru even when fully closed. Right now I'm keeping an eye on it. I have both knobs fully open on the stove and have closed the damper 100%. With the damper fully open it was too much draft created a very hot stove. I'm trying to maintain a 600/650 degree stove as that seems to help out the upstairs warmth. Anything below that doesn't do much other than heating the basement.

I've got her loaded up to the top - I'm hoping I can get the stove dialed in so I only have to control the damper. I guess I could rework my ductwork too. Do a 45d right out the back along with a 3' section and then another 45d right into the horizontal going in the wall... Would probably help with the draft situation if thats the problem.

I will admit, I like the stove off the wall where I have it. The back of the stove produces a lot of heat. :D
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:48 pm

ASHDUMP wrote:I suppose my draft could be weak and I guess only time will tell as I'm really new at this. My damper has holes that allow air to pass thru even when fully closed. Right now I'm keeping an eye on it. I have both knobs fully open on the stove and have closed the damper 100%. With the damper fully open it was too much draft created a very hot stove. I'm trying to maintain a 600/650 degree stove as that seems to help out the upstairs warmth. Anything below that doesn't do much other than heating the basement.

I've got her loaded up to the top - I'm hoping I can get the stove dialed in so I only have to control the damper. I guess I could rework my ductwork too. Do a 45d right out the back along with a 3' section and then another 45d right into the horizontal going in the wall... Would probably help with the draft situation if thats the problem.

I will admit, I like the stove off the wall where I have it. The back of the stove produces a lot of heat. :D


ive never seen a situation that requires both primary air knobs needing to be open completely :shock: if your draft is so poor that it would require that (then you would not be able to close your damper like that)... close the air knobs to half way for starters (open the damper if need be)... your pipe can radiate heat as well since its 47 ' long :lol: (put the damper on the other end and we might have something to talk about regarding closing it (in your case... better to close down draft with the primary air controls ;) ) ... Christ sakes by the time any heat going out the pipe ever gets to outside its all but gone anyways (so the damper is not needed to hold the heat so much in your set up).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:38 pm

Hey Ashdump, I am home from work and something a cured to me now bare with me...I now have a mpd and a baro on my set up. I also have a manometer measuring my draft and I can fine tune mine and hold a nice fire at -.03 w.c. which is the measurement of draft exiting my stove. There was a time last year during a cold spell my draft wasn't what I thought it should be and I was scratching my head and looking at my dryer and :idea: my basement needed air, the stove was using up more air than was available and causing a negative pressure little as it was it was having a direct effect on my draft...........so BINGO! cracked a window and everything settled down the baro started a flappin'. What you may need is some make up air to feed the basement, there are many ways to do this...I just crack a window and what I want to do is install a simple louvered dryer vent with the louvers on the inside of the window pane so air can come in when needed :lol: :lol: I just thought of something, my basement needs a baro! hahaha
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:51 am

michaelanthony wrote:Hey Ashdump, I am home from work and something a cured to me now bare with me...I now have a mpd and a baro on my set up. I also have a manometer measuring my draft and I can fine tune mine and hold a nice fire at -.03 w.c. which is the measurement of draft exiting my stove. There was a time last year during a cold spell my draft wasn't what I thought it should be and I was scratching my head and looking at my dryer and :idea: my basement needed air, the stove was using up more air than was available and causing a negative pressure little as it was it was having a direct effect on my draft...........so BINGO! cracked a window and everything settled down the baro started a flappin'. What you may need is some make up air to feed the basement, there are many ways to do this...I just crack a window and what I want to do is install a simple louvered dryer vent with the louvers on the inside of the window pane so air can come in when needed :lol: :lol: I just thought of something, my basement needs a baro! hahaha


good thought... even though he has a fieldstone foundation someone clearly did a chit load of work down their and maybe they sealed it up so well its like a pressure vessel :shock:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:57 am

Guys, thanks for the remarks regarding my setup. I have a walkout basement with a double door that leaks air like a sieve. I actually just got done wrapping her up in plastic to knock down some of the draft because that was the major culprit to my house being cold. I made sure that there was still a little bit of draft coming thru the bottom to supply my nat. gas boiler and water heater (and now the stove).

The back of my stove puts out so much heat partly because of the piping setup. I've stuck a fan behind it circulating some of the nice warm air around. I've noticed a huge difference with the stove and now the plastic knocking down some of the draft. I'm on the fence if I should keep my basement door open to bring some of the warm air up or keep it shut and just condition the air in the basement. The double walkout door is at the far end of my "Z" shaped basement so if I keep my upstairs basement door open all the hot air rises and keeps the farthest point in my basement cool. (oh the madness! :mad: )

Would you guys say I'm burning on the higher end temperature wise? At some points the top of the stove is cooking around 650 but sometimes will get slightly past that - I never like to get it below 600 though. I'm getting about 8 to 10hr burns.

I woke up this morning and the stove was out. Most of all the coal was burned up and was probably cooking around 650 while we were sleeping. Maybe at night I need to dial it down a bit so save some heat/coal, then during the day fire her back up to 650?

Next time I get her going I'll keep my MPD open 100% and dial in the knobs on the front.
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:23 pm

ASHDUMP wrote:Guys, thanks for the remarks regarding my setup. I have a walkout basement with a double door that leaks air like a sieve. I actually just got done wrapping her up in plastic to knock down some of the draft because that was the major culprit to my house being cold. I made sure that there was still a little bit of draft coming thru the bottom to supply my nat. gas boiler and water heater (and now the stove).

The back of my stove puts out so much heat partly because of the piping setup. I've stuck a fan behind it circulating some of the nice warm air around. I've noticed a huge difference with the stove and now the plastic knocking down some of the draft. I'm on the fence if I should keep my basement door open to bring some of the warm air up or keep it shut and just condition the air in the basement. The double walkout door is at the far end of my "Z" shaped basement so if I keep my upstairs basement door open all the hot air rises and keeps the farthest point in my basement cool. (oh the madness! :mad: )

Would you guys say I'm burning on the higher end temperature wise? At some points the top of the stove is cooking around 650 but sometimes will get slightly past that - I never like to get it below 600 though. I'm getting about 8 to 10hr burns.

I woke up this morning and the stove was out. Most of all the coal was burned up and was probably cooking around 650 while we were sleeping. Maybe at night I need to dial it down a bit so save some heat/coal, then during the day fire her back up to 650?

Next time I get her going I'll keep my MPD open 100% and dial in the knobs on the front.


dial those knobs in like me (mine are kept from 1/4 - 1/2 turn open, depending how hot i want the stove), maintaining 600-700 degree stove top is epically hot (so you are going to burn coal maintaining that), the stove however can take it (either way you should be able to get overnight burns no problem)... this is your first week with the stove (since you now have coal)... try and test different settings... learn what works best for you... your doing good!
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404