New Old Crane 404 Stove

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:34 am

ASHDUMP wrote:
dcrane wrote:Yep... 2000 degree cement is fine, the the critical part of that flange assembly is that front bar the runs parallel with the bottom of the top door opening (this area will fail if that bar is not welded good), make sure it has at least one inch welds along its entire length before you start burning coal in it. (however solid you may think it feels with tack welds... the heat from coal will pop tacks like toothpicks in an area such as that.)

Great information Doug - I'll take a look at this tonight when I return home. I had my entire head in the stove sideways trying to look underneath the front part which I believe had sufficient welds. The two side pieces had larger stitch welds at the ends/corners and then smaller tac welds in the middle. The back had stitch welds too. How much of the voids should be covered? cover 90% of the voids?I didn't find any holes on the top flange like you had mentioned.

How does the front part (assuming the part near the door) have structural integrity other than just holding up the pot?

There are a total of 4 flange pieces: 1 on the left, 1 on the right, one in the back near exhaust and one in the front. All 4 pieces hold up the burn pot.

What kind of furnace cement do you recommend? I'm sure everyone had their favorites... I'd rather just go based off of experience and save me the hassle. Rutland seems to be the most popular but I don't mind ordering from ebay/amazon for the right stuff....
:?:
http://www.meecomfg.com/products.php#page=22
:?:



Rutland furnace cement just plain sucks... Imperial holds up better, but William is someone who has a lot more experience and I will ask someone to make a few suggestions here please for best furnace cement (the one consensus is that Rutland Cement sucks).

The front bar on that flange as you can see is made of solid 1" bar stock, the metal along the bottom of the top door opening would be VERY susceptible to warping without that bar (it will never fail with that bar)... the reason is because this is a point of max. heat at the same time their is no other means of support (like the rear or sides all have support top to bottom but because of that wide top load door this area has a broad stretch of no support akin to trying to span a 10 foot doorway with no header.... that barstock is like the header to that doorway). hope that makes it more understandable :cry:

If you see no secondary air holes around that flange and there is stitch welding around the entire flange than leave it alone and allow that air to come up past the areas of no welds (we will use that as our secondary air supply).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:01 pm

Front bar has stitch welds along the top.... phew! Should be good to go.

The secondary air holes you speak of would they have been on the right and left side of the flange?
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:14 am

ASHDUMP wrote:Front bar has stitch welds along the top.... phew! Should be good to go.

The secondary air holes you speak of would they have been on the right and left side of the flange?


they were actually drilled through both the right/left flange as well as the bar on front and back. (about 10 tiny holes total) but again... its not critical.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:53 pm

dcrane wrote:
ASHDUMP wrote:Front bar has stitch welds along the top.... phew! Should be good to go.

The secondary air holes you speak of would they have been on the right and left side of the flange?


they were actually drilled through both the right/left flange as well as the bar on front and back. (about 10 tiny holes total) but again... its not critical.

OK thanks Doug. You've been a great help to me navigating this stove! Nothing better than to get the information straight from the horses mouth!
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:08 pm

Doug, While I had my head deep into the stove I noticed a steel wire that spans from side to side on the top of the stove. Do you know what this is for? :idea:
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:51 pm

ASHDUMP wrote:Doug, While I had my head deep into the stove I noticed a steel wire that spans from side to side on the top of the stove. Do you know what this is for? :idea:


say what :shock: take a photo of it please (no wires are used, so I need to see it to try and understand wtf it might be) :cry:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:05 pm

dcrane wrote:
ASHDUMP wrote:Doug, While I had my head deep into the stove I noticed a steel wire that spans from side to side on the top of the stove. Do you know what this is for? :idea:


say what :shock: take a photo of it please (no wires are used, so I need to see it to try and understand wtf it might be) :cry:

Do you think this was left over during the building/manufacturing process?

Holes were drilled out for the wire so.......? :?:

Image

Image
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:34 am

this wire is 100% not part of any manufacturing process at Crane Stoves, Make sure the outside of that top plate is solid welded on the sides and front on the outside of the stove (I see the burn marks through the side wall but its hard to tell along that front angle iron piece)? Those side walls are welding on the inside of the stove (the angle iron front is welded on the outside), I see the burn marks on that side so I suspect it is welded on the outside but I think you need to take off that side cast iron panel (held on with 4 self tapping 10/32 screws, buy some new ones at the hardward store about 3/4" long) to see behind that panel to #1 conform its welded #2 see where the heck or what the wire is doing? The drill holes has a huge burr on it still (this would have been prepunched if it was part of any manufacturing), I cant understand for the life of me where that wire goes or what its for (does it go through the other side wall and behind the cast side decorator panel?).

I can take a guess but its only a guess...
The owner of this stove wanted his stove inside his fireplace (evidenced by the torched off angle iron used for feet), the fireplace it was on its last legs with a failing Lentil and had a support wire running from one side wall of the fireplace to the other as a tension rod "bridge support", now the stove has to be shoved into this opening but its hitting this important tensioning wire... solution= drill through the damb stove so the wire can still support the fireplace opening toothy

EDIT: I thought of another reason... owner wanted to hand soup or socks or some shyt over the fire and did realize anything in that spot would be Zorched beyond all hope :lol:

I know that's a "reach"... anyone else have any ideas as to what this wire would have been for? this is like a riddle! and we love riddles around here :clap:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:26 am

dcrane wrote:this wire is 100% not part of any manufacturing process at Crane Stoves, Make sure the outside of that top plate is solid welded on the sides and front on the outside of the stove (I see the burn marks through the side wall but its hard to tell along that front angle iron piece)? Those side walls are welding on the inside of the stove (the angle iron front is welded on the outside), I see the burn marks on that side so I suspect it is welded on the outside but I think you need to take off that side cast iron panel (held on with 4 self tapping 10/32 screws, buy some new ones at the hardward store about 3/4" long) to see behind that panel to #1 conform its welded #2 see where the heck or what the wire is doing? The drill holes has a huge burr on it still (this would have been prepunched if it was part of any manufacturing), I cant understand for the life of me where that wire goes or what its for (does it go through the other side wall and behind the cast side decorator panel?).

I can take a guess but its only a guess...
The owner of this stove wanted his stove inside his fireplace (evidenced by the torched off angle iron used for feet), the fireplace it was on its last legs with a failing Lentil and had a support wire running from one side wall of the fireplace to the other as a tension rod "bridge support", now the stove has to be shoved into this opening but its hitting this important tensioning wire... solution= drill through the damb stove so the wire can still support the fireplace opening toothy

EDIT: I thought of another reason... owner wanted to hand soup or socks or some shyt over the fire and did realize anything in that spot would be Zorched beyond all hope :lol:

I know that's a "reach"... anyone else have any ideas as to what this wire would have been for? this is like a riddle! and we love riddles around here :clap:

Knowing nothing about stoves I was thinking it could have been used to hang something from within the stove however that seemed unlikely only because whatever you hang from it would get torched like you said. Then I was thinking it was some sort of thermocouple wire for the hot water recirculating thingamajigy but I'm not sure that would make sense either.

The wire does span across the stove to the other side wall. There is a little bit of slack in it but the only way I will be able to tell is if I take the cast iron panels off. I did notice that the cast iron panels have two threaded rod pegs at the bottom and two screws at the top. You can see the screws in the picture but the the threaded rod pegs below the burn plate. I'm thinking I should probably get some nuts and screw them on once I figure out this wire issue.

I'm just hoping the welds are good (I'm still a little unclear what welds on the outside of the stove you are talking about). These other issues are only minor...
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:50 am

ASHDUMP wrote:
dcrane wrote:this wire is 100% not part of any manufacturing process at Crane Stoves, Make sure the outside of that top plate is solid welded on the sides and front on the outside of the stove (I see the burn marks through the side wall but its hard to tell along that front angle iron piece)? Those side walls are welding on the inside of the stove (the angle iron front is welded on the outside), I see the burn marks on that side so I suspect it is welded on the outside but I think you need to take off that side cast iron panel (held on with 4 self tapping 10/32 screws, buy some new ones at the hardward store about 3/4" long) to see behind that panel to #1 conform its welded #2 see where the heck or what the wire is doing? The drill holes has a huge burr on it still (this would have been prepunched if it was part of any manufacturing), I cant understand for the life of me where that wire goes or what its for (does it go through the other side wall and behind the cast side decorator panel?).

I can take a guess but its only a guess...
The owner of this stove wanted his stove inside his fireplace (evidenced by the torched off angle iron used for feet), the fireplace it was on its last legs with a failing Lentil and had a support wire running from one side wall of the fireplace to the other as a tension rod "bridge support", now the stove has to be shoved into this opening but its hitting this important tensioning wire... solution= drill through the damb stove so the wire can still support the fireplace opening toothy

EDIT: I thought of another reason... owner wanted to hand soup or socks or some shyt over the fire and did realize anything in that spot would be Zorched beyond all hope :lol:

I know that's a "reach"... anyone else have any ideas as to what this wire would have been for? this is like a riddle! and we love riddles around here

Knowing nothing about stoves I was thinking it could have been used to hang something from within the stove however that seemed unlikely only because whatever you hang from it would get torched like you said. Then I was thinking it was some sort of thermocouple wire for the hot water recirculating thingamajigy but I'm not sure that would make sense either.

The wire does span across the stove to the other side wall. There is a little bit of slack in it but the only way I will be able to tell is if I take the cast iron panels off. I did notice that the cast iron panels have two threaded rod pegs at the bottom and two screws at the top. You can see the screws in the picture but the the threaded rod pegs below the burn plate. I'm thinking I should probably get some nuts and screw them on once I figure out this wire issue.

I'm just hoping the welds are good (I'm still a little unclear what welds on the outside of the stove you are talking about). These other issues are only minor...


You see the welding along the back of the stove (inside), im sure you can see the welding along the front (above the top door on the outside), the side panels are factory welded on the inside (but yours are not :shock: ), but to check these your going to need to take off those cast side panels (Im not even sure how those side panels would fit if its welded on the outside like I suspect, unless its a super small bead that somehow does not interfere with those cast side panels). You really have to do this bro :cry: You cannot use this stove if those welds are not in place (that top plate in other words needs to be airtight aka:solid welded along its entire perimeter be it inside/outside or combo of both). also... the studs you refer to are likely the "knock out" studs so your panels are not even secured on the bottom and you need to remove them by unscrewing those top 2 screws, take out the grate and firepot and get a heavy hammer and slam those studs from inside the stove to knock them out!, get some 10/32 self tapping screws and put the side panels back on using 4 screws. also... we want to know what and where the ends of that wire go to? so there is 3 reasons why it is unavoidable you need to get those side panels off the stove :taz:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:11 am

dcrane wrote:
ASHDUMP wrote:
dcrane wrote:this wire is 100% not part of any manufacturing process at Crane Stoves, Make sure the outside of that top plate is solid welded on the sides and front on the outside of the stove (I see the burn marks through the side wall but its hard to tell along that front angle iron piece)? Those side walls are welding on the inside of the stove (the angle iron front is welded on the outside), I see the burn marks on that side so I suspect it is welded on the outside but I think you need to take off that side cast iron panel (held on with 4 self tapping 10/32 screws, buy some new ones at the hardward store about 3/4" long) to see behind that panel to #1 conform its welded #2 see where the heck or what the wire is doing? The drill holes has a huge burr on it still (this would have been prepunched if it was part of any manufacturing), I cant understand for the life of me where that wire goes or what its for (does it go through the other side wall and behind the cast side decorator panel?).

I can take a guess but its only a guess...
The owner of this stove wanted his stove inside his fireplace (evidenced by the torched off angle iron used for feet), the fireplace it was on its last legs with a failing Lentil and had a support wire running from one side wall of the fireplace to the other as a tension rod "bridge support", now the stove has to be shoved into this opening but its hitting this important tensioning wire... solution= drill through the damb stove so the wire can still support the fireplace opening toothy

EDIT: I thought of another reason... owner wanted to hand soup or socks or some shyt over the fire and did realize anything in that spot would be Zorched beyond all hope :lol:

I know that's a "reach"... anyone else have any ideas as to what this wire would have been for? this is like a riddle! and we love riddles around here

Knowing nothing about stoves I was thinking it could have been used to hang something from within the stove however that seemed unlikely only because whatever you hang from it would get torched like you said. Then I was thinking it was some sort of thermocouple wire for the hot water recirculating thingamajigy but I'm not sure that would make sense either.

The wire does span across the stove to the other side wall. There is a little bit of slack in it but the only way I will be able to tell is if I take the cast iron panels off. I did notice that the cast iron panels have two threaded rod pegs at the bottom and two screws at the top. You can see the screws in the picture but the the threaded rod pegs below the burn plate. I'm thinking I should probably get some nuts and screw them on once I figure out this wire issue.

I'm just hoping the welds are good (I'm still a little unclear what welds on the outside of the stove you are talking about). These other issues are only minor...


You see the welding along the back of the stove (inside), im sure you can see the welding along the front (above the top door on the outside), the side panels are factory welded on the inside (but yours are not :shock: ), but to check these your going to need to take off those cast side panels (Im not even sure how those side panels would fit if its welded on the outside like I suspect, unless its a super small bead that somehow does not interfere with those cast side panels). You really have to do this bro :cry: You cannot use this stove if those welds are not in place (that top plate in other words needs to be airtight aka:solid welded along its entire perimeter be it inside/outside or combo of both). also... the studs you refer to are likely the "knock out" studs so your panels are not even secured on the bottom and you need to remove them by unscrewing those top 2 screws, take out the grate and firepot and get a heavy hammer and slam those studs from inside the stove to knock them out!, get some 10/32 self tapping screws and put the side panels back on using 4 screws. also... we want to know what and where the ends of that wire go to? so there is 3 reasons why it is unavoidable you need to get those side panels off the stove :taz:

Nothing like a little extra work! Ha! Well I'm crossing my fingers that everything is welded... If not, I'll go to plan B....
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:26 am

Seems totally ridicules--but--could that wire of been some idiots answer to holding fire brick in place??????Whoops, that's the TOP??? NEVER MIND ;) Point being---who gives a damn???????????? Cut the wire out & fill the holes!
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:42 pm

freetown fred wrote:Seems totally ridicules--but--could that wire of been some idiots answer to holding fire brick in place??????Whoops, that's the TOP??? NEVER MIND ;) Point being---who gives a damn???????????? Cut the wire out & fill the holes!


Fred is right about the wire (but this is a very interesting stove to me, and i wanna know WTF the idiot was using the wire for (there had to be some master plan behind it to take the time to drill out holes in a stove and crap, no?) toothy
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:47 pm

Maybe there were artificial flames with lights and such suspended in there. :?: :?: :?:

Ha... and wonder why the coil made no HOT water. :roll:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:13 pm

Well this was anticlimactic! But on a good note, the entire box is welded. The front and both sides are welded from the exterior and the back is completely welded from the interior. VICTORY!
Image

Image
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404