New Old Crane 404 Stove

New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:21 pm

Hi Everyone/Doug,

I just purchased a new old crane 404 off a gentleman thru craigs list. In all honesty, it was an impulse purchase and I did not do any "online" research (which I usually do for everything) before I became the new owner . The stove is in mint condition - brand new. The old owner painted it up prior to putting it on CL because it was rusty. His story was that he purchased it in bulk with a lot of other items (a trailer load/storage bin situation).

It came with three extra gasketed pieces of glass and extra wood knobs for the doors. It has the fire pot (which is only for coal I presume from reading these threads?) and a cast iron warming top. Oh, and I have the interior baffle that goes on the hooks. I'm not sure how much this thing weighs but I know for a fact my wife can't help me unload it from the back of my truck. I put a tarp over it for tonight as some rain is expected... looks like I'll need to get the neighbor down the road to help me out.

I primarily purchased this stove for wood use as I have plenty of it. I would however like to try coal... never done that before. We have a stove hookup in the basement and a fireplace up on the first floor. This stove (unfortunately) will be in the basement.

I would like to come across the "shaker" bar... I don't have that....

I'm located in Massachusetts where the stove was manufactured. I plan on hooking it up and taking some pictures for anyone interested. ...once I get it off the back of the truck!!!
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:50 am

This was the stove I wanted and was offered to me for some price of $795.00 (which not only I could not afford, but would not pay even if I could), Im not going to say it was a bad value because he did have the cast decorator kit on it and it is brand new. Though 90% of Crane stoves are brand new because they are 1/4" solid welded stoves (a grinder and can of paint could make almost any Crane be brand new again as shown here: Repaint & Tune up Crane Model 404). Having that brand new firepot and grate system is kinda nice (if it was mine id never use it and keep them for re-casts always) which is why I wanted it! :mad3: Im just not willing to be overcharged for that privilege.

To replicate a Crane 404 today (because it has all the benefits of a solid welded steel stove PLUS all the benefits of a cast Iron stove too) it would cost thousands... This was the Cadillac of modern hand fired coal stoves in its day and its quality is undeniable! Airtight today and airtight 100 years from today without the need to maintain or re-cement or do anything other than replacing the door gasket, you can feel good about your purchase!

The ceramic glass you have is worth about $30.00 each piece (so don't loose it or brake it), You can take out the firepot, the grate, the doors simply pop off (open them up and then wiggle them back and forth as your giving upward pressure and they will slide right up and off), you can then unload it a lot easier without hurting anybodys back).

To be clear... this is a Coal Stove for sure! It can do wood very well also (like most coal stoves can), because of its shape it has the benefit of an elongated firepot to take logs horizontally yet it still has a rounded firepot (for no dead spots in coal) and also has the benefit of a grate system that shakes and covers 100% of the entire bottom of the firepot (a nice thing with coal burning). I can promise you that if you try coal in this stove you wont be burning wood (get anthracite NUT size coal). You may "think" your going to burn both but you wont be...

Send me your address via PM and ill get a shaker handle to you, if you live near where this stove was I will probably just drop it off at your house, if you live far away than I'll mail it.
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:00 am

I should let you know there is a few things you can and should do since your grate sys is brand new... I would take the time to get some some high temp grease and grease up the one piece (called the stop shaft) that goes through the side wall of the stove. also... take out the firepot and lay it on the ground on its side and use a 5" grinder to lightly grind/smooth up the side nice (especially just below the "Lip" that it rests on)... you want that firepot to slide in and out of the stove nice and easy and smoooooth (these are things I would have done at the factory on every stove I let out the door, but you cant be sure THIS stove had it done).

If you want to get really fancy you can smooth the bottom of each finger casting were they make contact with the stove (grease is useless here because it will burn off in a day, but smoothing the contact area will make the grate function nicer for decades to come).

If you get some high temp grease you can hit the hinge pins for the doors (just a little wipe on the pin itself here, don't use a gob and try not to let it hit anything else but the pin or it becomes a dust collector).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:37 am

Hi Doug,

Thanks for your reply. I paid $400 for the stove and had all intentions of burning wood but coal might be fun. I've just got lots of wood in the yard from fallen trees from past years storms we've had here in NE. I'm in Foxboro which isn't to far from your neck of the woods and also work just south of Boston too. I appreciate your offer to supply the shaker arm (that is very kind of you).

I do like the idea of grinding down the pieces you described which I will certainly do based on your recommendation. To be honest, I haven't thoroughly looked at the stove to see all the components to it. I'm not sure what all the pieces do and how it works. So I'm sure I'll have questions....

Question 1: When the fire pot is installed, do the coals just stay in the pot itself or do they filter down onto the grate system and burn down there? From memory, the grate system covers the entire bottom of the box but the pot is only centered in it.
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:48 pm

ASHDUMP wrote:Hi Doug,

Thanks for your reply. I paid $400 for the stove and had all intentions of burning wood but coal might be fun. I've just got lots of wood in the yard from fallen trees from past years storms we've had here in NE. I'm in Foxboro which isn't to far from your neck of the woods and also work just south of Boston too. I appreciate your offer to supply the shaker arm (that is very kind of you).

I do like the idea of grinding down the pieces you described which I will certainly do based on your recommendation. To be honest, I haven't thoroughly looked at the stove to see all the components to it. I'm not sure what all the pieces do and how it works. So I'm sure I'll have questions....

Question 1: When the fire pot is installed, do the coals just stay in the pot itself or do they filter down onto the grate system and burn down there? From memory, the grate system covers the entire bottom of the box but the pot is only centered in it.


I offered him $400 cash the day he posted it... that almost makes me want to locate an IP and drive to Bridgewater :mad: I'll let Karma handle it instead but that's pretty shitty (Remind me to ask Webby next time im sailing in Newport to ban his azz :lol: Jokes)

here is the thread with a download of your owners manual Crane 404 Owners Manual (look a few posts down and you will see the download). The coal sits on the grate all the way up to above the firepot when fully loaded (most bank it a bit along that rear removable baffle (that baffle is removable for cleaning purposes... in the summer you can take it out and shove your vacuum hose right down the pipe ;) )

I probably wont get out to Foxboro, so leave me an address you want a shaker handle sent to and I will drop it in the mail for you (all I will ask in return is for you to make an effort to either make a thread with some pics of your set up, or make an effort to help another on the forum sometime).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:58 pm

dcrane wrote:
ASHDUMP wrote: I offered him $400 cash the day he posted it... that almost makes me want to locate an IP and drive to Bridgewater :mad: I'll let Karma handle it instead but that's pretty shitty (Remind me to ask Webby next time im sailing in Newport to ban his azz :lol: Jokes)

here is the thread with a download of your owners manual Crane 404 Owners Manual (look a few posts down and you will see the download). The coal sits on the grate all the way up to above the firepot when fully loaded (most bank it a bit along that rear removable baffle (that baffle is removable for cleaning purposes... in the summer you can take it out and shove your vacuum hose right down the pipe ;) )

I probably wont get out to Foxboro, so leave me an address you want a shaker handle sent to and I will drop it in the mail for you (all I will ask in return is for you to make an effort to either make a thread with some pics of your set up, or make an effort to help another on the forum sometime).

Oh you've got to be kidding me. So you made an offer on the same exact stove I just purchased? I'm not sure how long it was listed for on CL for but I just happen to see it and then emailed the fellow. I said I could see it the next day and if it was satisfactory I would offer him $400. Did he have it listed for more? Do you think I got a good deal? To be honest, I wasn't sure what to pay - the only thing I knew was I was in love with the look and wanted it. Never felt that way about a wood/coal stove before!!!!

Now with this forum and your knowledge of the stove I feel like I've hit the jackpot. (but I do feel a bit guilty :shock: )

I will be sure to take pictures and also to ask more questions.... maybe a newbie like myself will find this thread years down the road when they come across problems, issues or new installations. Thanks again for your generosity in sending me the shaker handle. I will PM you my address.

As promised some pictures. I will also promise to take better pictures but for now these will do!
Image

Image

Image

Image
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:14 pm

Looks like a great stove for $400. Nice work.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ONEDOLLAR On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:55 pm

Ashdump

1 week of solid coal burning will cure you of any desire to burn wood again. Don't believe me? Thats OK. You will see. I burned wood for many many years and I NEVER paid for firewood. NEVER. Now I pay for coal because you cannot find a better fuel to heat your home with. :)

So put aside any silly notions of buring wood in your new 404. Get 2-4 bags of coal to try and get ready to join the rest of us coal addicts!!!! :lol:
ONEDOLLAR
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 2014 Chubby Prototype
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford #2 Base Heater
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:55 pm

yes $400 was a bargain for that stove (it will last a lifetime), I did not really need the stove so much but the firepot really (because your firepot is brand new it would be useful to me to have recasts made from it)... its not a huge deal but their are many people who do not have that firepot and it cost about $495.00 to replace it. The 6 pieces of glass you got cost $200.00 alone, the cast decorative panel set on that stove was a very expensive option back in 1980. This stove has built in heat plates, adjustable feet, removable baffle, an external shaker system that is extremely expensive better than any round grate you will ever see (it is bullet proof and resists clinkers and dead spots like no other, if you notice the slight wiggle between each of those sliding fingers that is to allow clinkers to slip through as the sliders are grinding back and forth). To replicate that stove today would cost thousands of dollars and its simply not done by anyone as you can see in this thread Stove moves while shaking down

You got a great deal!
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:59 pm

Super looking stove! But am I missing something? I don't see any firebrick.

What is the nominal BTU rating of a Crane 404?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (if I ever get it fixed)

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:10 pm

lsayre wrote:Super looking stove! But am I missing something? I don't see any firebrick.

What is the nominal BTU rating of a Crane 404?


it has a cast liner (you can see it sitting separate in the bed of his truck), it slips in the top door and rests on the lip. The BTU rating is 60,000 (but that's a very conservative rating for this stove)

I notice the four marks on the top plate of the stove (this person had the cast iron trivet top and water heater coil)!!! did he give them to you?

OneDollar is right, this stove with anthracite nut is a beast and you will never burn wood in it after using coal. If for some reason you can obtain cut, split, seasoned hardwood delivered and stacked for free than maybe it would be something to think about (In which case you do not need to install that cast liner and you can even pull out the entire grate system (except for the stop shaft that goes through the side wall of the stove).
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:30 am

dcrane wrote:I should let you know there is a few things you can and should do since your grate sys is brand new... I would take the time to get some some high temp grease and grease up the one piece (called the stop shaft) that goes through the side wall of the stove. also... take out the firepot and lay it on the ground on its side and use a 5" grinder to lightly grind/smooth up the side nice (especially just below the "Lip" that it rests on)... you want that firepot to slide in and out of the stove nice and easy and smoooooth (these are things I would have done at the factory on every stove I let out the door, but you cant be sure THIS stove had it done).

If you want to get really fancy you can smooth the bottom of each finger casting were they make contact with the stove (grease is useless here because it will burn off in a day, but smoothing the contact area will make the grate function nicer for decades to come).

If you get some high temp grease you can hit the hinge pins for the doors (just a little wipe on the pin itself here, don't use a gob and try not to let it hit anything else but the pin or it becomes a dust collector).


Kano Labs offers a great solution to lubricating areas that hit high temperatures of up to 1,800*. Their Pyrolube add actually mentions stokers! Check out their stuff. I've been using their spray graphite for cooler areas like hing pins and shaker linkage for years. No grease to catch ash and turn it into an abrasive, just the slick cousin to coal, graphite. We should all get together and order up a case to split :idea:
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:26 am

dcrane wrote:
lsayre wrote:Super looking stove! But am I missing something? I don't see any firebrick.

What is the nominal BTU rating of a Crane 404?


it has a cast liner (you can see it sitting separate in the bed of his truck), it slips in the top door and rests on the lip. The BTU rating is 60,000 (but that's a very conservative rating for this stove)

I notice the four marks on the top plate of the stove (this person had the cast iron trivet top and water heater coil)!!! did he give them to you?

OneDollar is right, this stove with anthracite nut is a beast and you will never burn wood in it after using coal. If for some reason you can obtain cut, split, seasoned hardwood delivered and stacked for free than maybe it would be something to think about (In which case you do not need to install that cast liner and you can even pull out the entire grate system (except for the stop shaft that goes through the side wall of the stove).

The stove did come with the tribit on top which was in the cab of the truck. I did not get the water heater coil.... maybe he sold that separately? I didn't even know you could make hot water from this thing! Is that what you are talking about?

I'll pick up a couple bags of coal... But I haven't the clue as to where to buy them! I have a couple cords of wood right now all stacked and seasoned so I think I'll try to burn most of that. I will definitely also try coal though!
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: ASHDUMP On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:28 am

dcrane wrote:yes $400 was a bargain for that stove (it will last a lifetime), I did not really need the stove so much but the firepot really (because your firepot is brand new it would be useful to me to have recasts made from it)... its not a huge deal but their are many people who do not have that firepot and it cost about $495.00 to replace it. The 6 pieces of glass you got cost $200.00 alone, the cast decorative panel set on that stove was a very expensive option back in 1980. This stove has built in heat plates, adjustable feet, removable baffle, an external shaker system that is extremely expensive better than any round grate you will ever see (it is bullet proof and resists clinkers and dead spots like no other, if you notice the slight wiggle between each of those sliding fingers that is to allow clinkers to slip through as the sliders are grinding back and forth). To replicate that stove today would cost thousands of dollars and its simply not done by anyone as you can see in this thread Stove moves while shaking down

You got a great deal!

How long would you need the pot for? We could arrange something so you could get the information off of it and return to me. Let me know.... Its still early in the season.
ASHDUMP
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Stove/Furnace Make: Crane
Stove/Furnace Model: 404

Re: New Old Crane 404 Stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:52 am

They would actually use the pot itself as the mold (it would take some time), I do have a very good used pot that would work for you (I was going to it to do this, but a brand new one is more ideal for this purpose)... It may be the only brand new firepot remaining in the entire world :cry:

Yes, the 404 trivet top was a separate option than the cast decorator panels mounted on the front and sides, You will notice on this trivet an inlet and outlet hole at the rear of it (this was for the hot water coil) it was made of copper so maybe someone scrapped it over the years :( either way... not many tied these into their hot water system), it would have only been the hardcore folks from a forum like this who did such things :lol:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404