Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:39 am

That the USA may once again return to the glory days of being oil self sufficient may matter little to the consumers wallet (though it will be a great relief in many other ways). The oil we are currently discovering and pumping here at home is very expensive to get at as well as to process. The net result is that there are high prices at the pump.

It is only the high price of imported oil and the even higher price and lower quality of Canada's oil sand derived oil that permits our revived domestic oil industry to survive and thrive.

Take away the high prices of imported oil and the blossoming oil industry in the USA collapses. Could this be a reason to foment perpetual unrest in the middle east?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:43 am

plumb-r wrote:This would fit in with exactly what the gov. wants to do , force people out of rural areas.


This tax is already in place with the fuel tax and it's one of the fairer taxes we have, the more you drive or the larger your vehicle is the more tax you pay. People using electric, natural gas or whatever aren't paying anything and that needs to be rectified. Ideally you get rid of the fuel tax and move to tax based on the miles driven and the weight of the vehicle which is as fair as it can get.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:21 am

Why not just put a special meter & charging system on the electric cars, then they will in effect pay their share of tax on power used. What I was getting at is that people in rural areas must drive further to receive the same services as doctors, shopping, work, school or basically everything that suburbanites & city folk take for granted & a added tax by mile would in effect as someone brought up force more people out. Then the rural areas themselves suffer even more with the loss of tax revenue & as in my case my road has never been paved in fact the last time it was scraped a bit & had more dirt put down it was by a local property owner, we tend to help out the township more than demand from.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75


Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:58 am

samhill wrote:Why not just put a special meter & charging system on the electric cars, then they will in effect pay their share of tax on power used.


If such a tax is a necessity, then this is a reasonable solution!

Richard's idea of an annual inspection is a good one also. See how much the odometer has gone up and assess the tax for the year. Moderate the tax levied by the vehicles EPA mileage rating, on a progressively sliding scale that moves more toward the highway rated MPG as the miles go up. In that case, all fuel taxes at the pump could be eliminated.

Example for a vehicle with an EPA rating of 22 city, 30 highway:

7,500 miles per year or less = taxed by miles driven divided by 22.
25,000 miles per year or more = taxed by miles driven divided by 30.
In-between is determined by a straight line slope based scale that goes from dividing miles by 22 at the lower end of miles driven, to dividing by 30 at the higher end.

Then tax the hybrids and 100% electrics by the same method, via assuming for tax purposes that they get the nominal city/highway MPG's of the average conventionally powered car/truck in their weight/size class.

Those who love the complexity fairness of progressive taxation should dig this idea.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:07 pm

My proposed solution:

Eliminate the taxpayer funded rebates (incentives) for purchasing a hybrid or an EV, and also eliminate fuel taxes for them (sans for the fuel tax incurred by a hybrid when it consumes conventional gasoline or diesel).

The incentive to own an electric vehicle then becomes one of not having to be burdened with road taxes.

Alternative proposal:

Eliminate the current road taxes via fuel, and assess a state level flat tax on all sales (not just fuel sales) to cover road maintenance.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: Rigar On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:46 pm

so then....what would be next?
...a motorcycle tax ?
...a bicycle tax ?
...sneaker tax?

...come on. If indeed a fair use tax would be based on size and needed (road) maintnance per vehicle....then the fuel tax (across the board-per gallon) should be approprate for all.

...but I cant help but wonder if this really has to do with the allowed deduction by the IRS for mileage.... a high mileage hybrid car would reap the rewards of this deduction as opposed to a low mileage vehicle.
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:54 pm

Time of day tolls...
GPS in the inspection sticter...
Already proposed in MA...
That is why MA loves the high-speed drive thru tolls...
They will popup like weeds...
Because they can...
And will tax you...
By the mile...
If it has wheels...
The gas tax is not invisible...
and will not apply to Other Fuels...
Bio-fuel,CNG, Electric, Nukes...
At least they reversed the tech tax in MA...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:27 pm

samhill wrote: & a added tax by mile would in effect as someone brought up force more people out.


Sam my suggestion would not add anything you are not already paying necessarily. You are already paying the fuel tax, that would have to be eliminated and shifted to per mile tax. As I said the fule tax is already fair to some degree since the more you drive or the larger your vehicle the more you're paying.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:32 pm

Rigar wrote:so then....what would be next?
...a motorcycle tax ?


You're aleady paying fuel taxes, you're subsidizing these cars.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:40 pm

lsayre wrote:Example for a vehicle with an EPA rating of 22 city, 30 highway:

7,500 miles per year or less = taxed by miles driven divided by 22.
25,000 miles per year or more = taxed by miles driven divided by 30.
In-between is determined by a straight line slope based scale that goes from dividing miles by 22 at the lower end of miles driven, to dividing by 30 at the higher end.

Then tax the hybrids and 100% electrics by the same method, via assuming for tax purposes that they get the nominal city/highway MPG's of the average conventionally powered car/truck in their weight/size class.

Those who love the complexity fairness of progressive taxation should dig this idea.


Now you making my head hurt and it's not that complicated, the gas mileage no longer plays a role except for you base calcualtions You determine a fractional value per pound and multiply by the curb weight and then multiply by the miles driven.

For example lets suppose the average car is 25mpg and weighs 4000lbs. You wold use this as the base calculation for every vehicle. If you are paying 50 cents per gallon in tax now then you are paying 2 cents per mile. 2 divided by 4000 gives us 0.0005. This would be the fractional value for every vehicle.

0.0005 * Curb Weight * Miles Driven = Tax you pay

You'd need some kind of sliding scale or exception for commercial vehicles here though because a tractor trailer is going to pay 40 cents per mile.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: mozz On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:59 pm

The weight should be figured as, car, truck& van, 1 ton, upwards etc. Such as the current PA registration costs. Where can i buy tax free gas since my lawnmower and power tools do not use the road? Not off road diesel, but off road gasoline.
mozz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: grumpy On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:04 pm

mozz wrote:The weight should be figured as, car, truck& van, 1 ton, upwards etc. Such as the current PA registration costs. Where can i buy tax free gas since my lawnmower and power tools do not use the road? Not off road diesel, but off road gasoline.


Good point, part of the scam? Most people don't have diesel powered lawn mowers.
grumpy
 

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: mozz On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:38 pm

I figured it out, i can itemize on my taxes. Oops, my standard deduction is always better than itemizing. The road's falling apart across the street from my house, i better buy more gasoline to help them fix it.

Any natural gas sold for a vehicle should be taxed from the start, any if it isn't, it's politics in action. What really needs to be done is a website that shows 10 state road workers (or contractors) standing around while 1 works. When they determine who the boss is on that job, he gets fired without question. All bosses get paid $100,000/year, no benefits, no pensions, no vacations. Some of the bridges around NEPA are terrible, 1000 patches on a bridge only to have them do it again in 1 or 2 years. Waste of money.

Electric vehicles should have the electricity taxed, give them a break for being so efficient, but they should still have to pay something.
mozz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:49 pm

mozz wrote: What really needs to be done is a website that shows 10 state road workers (or contractors) standing around while 1 works.


They were tarringg the cracks in the road here last fall, think I counted 14 of them . 2 guys with signs, one guy driving the tar truck, one guy operating a compressor hose to blow the dirt out of the cracks and one guy operating the tar nozzle. The other nine of them were standing around watching them work.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Tax by the mile is getting closer to reality

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:01 pm

It is the same in every state. Can you say union? And to think I walked away from that job.....


Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000