Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: Rigar On: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:02 pm

Vampiro...
well said ! :clap:
Rigar
 
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:12 pm

Indeed well said. I have consistently upheld that honest money (honest measure and representation of productive wealth) is what is lacking in our nation, and that Dollars which over time lose value (I.E., they represent less wealth today than they did in the past, and they will continually represent less wealth as time moves forward) are and cannot be considered by any standard an honest measure of anything, least of all wealth, and that legal tender laws are the crux of the problem, leading directly to our economic and moral decline (and to our eventual collapse) as a nation. Now I see that I'm not alone.
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: KLook On: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:25 pm

You are not alone....but I don't think there are enough of us.

Kevin
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:48 pm

It will stay this way until somebody invents a better way for politicians to buy votes.
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: plumb-r On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:35 am

It can 't get easier to buy votes now! You got your Obama phones, Obamacare healthcare, and over 99 months of unemployment not to mention the highest number of people on food stamps in American history. If they don't have what you need the President will pass a executive order to get it for you! :(
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:54 am

Plumb, :nono: it's a secret :secret: even some cons have figured it out (yea some are wise) if you let out the :secret: even more will jump on the gravy train & ruin the easy life for us libs. :box:
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:28 am

samhill wrote:Plumb, :nono: it's a secret :secret: even some cons have figured it out (yea some are wise) if you let out the :secret: even more will jump on the gravy train & ruin the easy life for us libs. :box:





Not much pride being developed for hard work this generation.
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:39 am

Vampiro wrote:It's amazing how gullible some individuals are. How is it an individual can believe that inflation (money printing) can confer benefits, or is even good for individuals in an economy? Would someone let another individual rob their home or savings account of 5 or 10% per year? What if the robber forewarned the individual of the theft that would take place. Would that make it easier to accept the thievery that will take place?

The monetary system is a disaster. The only reason it survives is because it is forced upon individuals. Legal tender laws force an individual to accept a media of exchange against their will. For if they do not comply, force will be used against them. If only we had different individuals running the fed, or different politicians, or more stimulus would things be better........That is the normal reaction from individuals. Yet things don't change, they get worse as freedom and liberty are stripped away. Repeating the same things over and over again and expecting the same result is insanity. The conclusion one can draw from government is insanity. Many individuals whom founded the nation believed that freedom should be expanded. Thomas Jefferson even said "I have no fear, but that the result of our experiment will be, that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master" For that is the logical conclusion of freedom and liberty, if one truly believes in them. It can be no other way, as that would be antithetical to what freedom and liberty is.

For 6,000 years, gold was a preferred media of exchange. It was a commodity, and was tested on the market by individuals. It was considered valuable through it's properties, and therefore became an accepted media. The same goes for silver, but silver historically had less purchasing power than gold. It was normally used for smaller transactions. The only way fiat money which has no real value such as the dollar, and other "paper" money remain in existence is through legal tender laws and the force of government. In 1933 the government (through Executive order by FDR) robbed individuals of gold, which was required to be deposited into the federal reserve bank. Individuals were threatened with fines and imprisonment if they didn't comply. From then on, gold was not redeemable for dollars. The only time this happened was under the Bretton Woods agreement, which was a failure in it's inception (just as the FED RES is, as it mismatches assets and liabilities through fractional reserve banking). Individuals themselves could not redeem gold for dollars, but other countries could. When the politicians and the FED RES was caught pyramiding dollars on top of gold, instead of being robbed, the other countries demanded their gold back and were abandoning the inflated dollar. That was why Nixon closed the gold window, as there was an outflow of gold.

So, here is a thought experiment. What if an individual came to one's home and offered to buy it with monopoly money? Do you think someone would accept it? They would probably say no, and ask that individual to get off their land. So how is it someone can accept a worthless note made of wood pulp cotton, linen, and silk? Because a bunch of bankers and politicians say so? That has to be the most preposterous line one has ever heard of, and a horrid scam to boot. This would equate to someone accepting the monopoly money as a means of exchange for their home. For if the bankers and politicians would proclaim the new currency is monopoly money, many would rush to grab their board games and raid the bank. So there is a central bank which is "constrained" by politicians, as the central banks goal is to eliminate unemployment and market fluctuations, and also help the situation by controlling the rate of interest. Sadly, through force and threats of imprisonment and violence, others whom are not gullible are forced to comply with this nonsense, and are robbed of their freedom, liberty and media of exchange through currency debauchery.

The debt is growing, purchasing power has been continually reduced, savers are punished, and the market is manipulated continually. The results are disastrous, yet individuals keep believing the scam that is the dollar and the monetary system along with the bankers and politicians themselves.


We need a "like" or "thanks" button for posts like this one!
rockwood
 
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:48 am

rockwood wrote:
Vampiro wrote:It's amazing how gullible some individuals are. How is it an individual can believe that inflation (money printing) can confer benefits, or is even good for individuals in an economy? Would someone let another individual rob their home or savings account of 5 or 10% per year? What if the robber forewarned the individual of the theft that would take place. Would that make it easier to accept the thievery that will take place?

The monetary system is a disaster. The only reason it survives is because it is forced upon individuals. Legal tender laws force an individual to accept a media of exchange against their will. For if they do not comply, force will be used against them. If only we had different individuals running the fed, or different politicians, or more stimulus would things be better........That is the normal reaction from individuals. Yet things don't change, they get worse as freedom and liberty are stripped away. Repeating the same things over and over again and expecting the same result is insanity. The conclusion one can draw from government is insanity. Many individuals whom founded the nation believed that freedom should be expanded. Thomas Jefferson even said "I have no fear, but that the result of our experiment will be, that men may be trusted to govern themselves without a master" For that is the logical conclusion of freedom and liberty, if one truly believes in them. It can be no other way, as that would be antithetical to what freedom and liberty is.

For 6,000 years, gold was a preferred media of exchange. It was a commodity, and was tested on the market by individuals. It was considered valuable through it's properties, and therefore became an accepted media. The same goes for silver, but silver historically had less purchasing power than gold. It was normally used for smaller transactions. The only way fiat money which has no real value such as the dollar, and other "paper" money remain in existence is through legal tender laws and the force of government. In 1933 the government (through Executive order by FDR) robbed individuals of gold, which was required to be deposited into the federal reserve bank. Individuals were threatened with fines and imprisonment if they didn't comply. From then on, gold was not redeemable for dollars. The only time this happened was under the Bretton Woods agreement, which was a failure in it's inception (just as the FED RES is, as it mismatches assets and liabilities through fractional reserve banking). Individuals themselves could not redeem gold for dollars, but other countries could. When the politicians and the FED RES was caught pyramiding dollars on top of gold, instead of being robbed, the other countries demanded their gold back and were abandoning the inflated dollar. That was why Nixon closed the gold window, as there was an outflow of gold.

So, here is a thought experiment. What if an individual came to one's home and offered to buy it with monopoly money? Do you think someone would accept it? They would probably say no, and ask that individual to get off their land. So how is it someone can accept a worthless note made of wood pulp cotton, linen, and silk? Because a bunch of bankers and politicians say so? That has to be the most preposterous line one has ever heard of, and a horrid scam to boot. This would equate to someone accepting the monopoly money as a means of exchange for their home. For if the bankers and politicians would proclaim the new currency is monopoly money, many would rush to grab their board games and raid the bank. So there is a central bank which is "constrained" by politicians, as the central banks goal is to eliminate unemployment and market fluctuations, and also help the situation by controlling the rate of interest. Sadly, through force and threats of imprisonment and violence, others whom are not gullible are forced to comply with this nonsense, and are robbed of their freedom, liberty and media of exchange through currency debauchery.

The debt is growing, purchasing power has been continually reduced, savers are punished, and the market is manipulated continually. The results are disastrous, yet individuals keep believing the scam that is the dollar and the monetary system along with the bankers and politicians themselves.


We need a "like" or "thanks" button for posts like this one!



No *censored*! I agree great post.
Flyer5
 
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:03 am

Absolutely right Flyer but whose fault is it, does it only encompass one political party & not the other, & why doesn't either party do much about it (if anything) when in power?
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:39 pm

samhill wrote:Absolutely right Flyer but whose fault is it, does it only encompass one political party & not the other, & why doesn't either party do much about it (if anything) when in power?



Because they are all corrupt and greedy? Does this answer work? Do I get a sticker?
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:22 pm

I got a 47%er bumper sticker you can have. :out:
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:53 pm

samhill wrote:I got a 47%er bumper sticker you can have. :out:



Which 47%? :D

its all OK Barry has it covered anyway. http://www.businessinsider.com/it-incre ... elf-2013-9
Flyer5
 
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:23 pm

samhill wrote:Absolutely right Flyer but whose fault is it, does it only encompass one political party & not the other, & why doesn't either party do much about it (if anything) when in power?


Bill Clinton's professor at Georgetown University said it best.

“The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can ‘throw the rascals out’ at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy” (Georgetown University Professor Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope, 1966.)
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Re: Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase OurDebt

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:15 am

So, Jeff, then it IS possible to fool ALL the people ALL of the time!
mikeandgerry
 
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