thininkg about buying a coal furance

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: ad356 On: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:49 pm

there is a clay pipe in the thimble in the basement
ad356
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: P61 pellet thinking about coal

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:33 pm

is the clay pipe 6" ?
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: Rigar On: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:37 pm

ad356 wrote:there is a clay pipe in the thimble in the basement



...thats prob the clay thimble itself
..your first chimney pic shows the clay tile coming 8" or so out of the chimney ( square) block on top
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: ad356 On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:01 am

it probably would be considered the thimble. the existing furnace is actually vented with what looks like black stove pipe, it looks like its 6". well it used to black I believe but now it is rusty. anyways that 6" pipe goes into the clay lining. I think this chimney might be good for a wood/coal furnace, but how am to be sure that it is safe to use, is a sound chimney, and the lining is in good shape. it appears to be in good shape but I am no expert. if I were to call a chimney person, they would of course attempt to sell me a liner. I have a second chimney that the previous owners were using for a wood stove. I was going to use it, I called someone to do a chimney sweep. they came out, spent 10-15 minutes telling me that it wasn't usable without a liner and charged me $150 for doing nothing. I couldn't have been more pissed off, they shouldn't have charged me at all; they did nothing. so I have a real hard time trusting these people. I am sure they are not all dishonest but allot of them probably are.

also if this chimney is good shape is it also good for wood or would I only be able to use coal with it. one of the reasons why I like the hotblast option is possibility of burning either wood or coal. if I can get a better deal on either one I could choose which fuel I would like to use. I can also start it on wood, get a fire going and then add coal. I hear that coal is really hard to get going.

here is the unit I am considering:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/u ... 1900-sq-ft

for $1,099 I think it can be beat, unless its a real piece of junk which I don't think they are.
ad356
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: P61 pellet thinking about coal

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: Rigar On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:27 am

a picture of the pipe/thimble connection would be helpful
either way..if you can visual look down your chimney and see how the clay sections look?
are they complete?
fairly straight ?
mortarat joints look sound?
..as the chimney itself is on the outside of the house...your biggest problem may only be coolerstack temps..but i wouldnt worry bout that yet.
coal exhaust for the most part is relatively cooler than wood...so if it looks sound and complete (the clay sections) you should be good to go.
while ur up there...could you measure the size of the clay flu?
...im guessing 8 x8"
...keep us posted
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: Rigar On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:46 am

just my 2 cents on the hotblast you are considering :

...a 50 lb hopper capacity will mean more trips to fill it...and obviously it wont have a big ash pan.
this may seem minor right now.. but imo hopper capacity is something to really consider on a stoker (if thats what it is?)
..secondly ..again...my oppinion
..550 cfm probably isnt going to completely satisfy your homes requirements...
the koker (or simliar) may be a better fit.
regardless...if you want the capabilities of (true)furnace at the price of a stove...u should maybe considdr a well maintained used one
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:51 am

i agree with rigar about the clay chimney liner, simply look at it to see if it is cracked, broken, chunks missing, etc. Coal exhaust is cooler than wood and does not make creosote so chimney fires are not a concern with coal. I very much doubt if a liner is needed.

To start a coal fire in a hand fed, simply start a wood fire and when it is going good add a thin layer of coal, allow that to catch and add another layer of coal and allow that to catch. Then fill the firebox as full as you can get it and throttle back the combustion air that must feed the fire from the bottom. Here is a video showing how to start a coal fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnLmCVpHnys

I am going to caution you on buying the hotblast. search on here for hotblast and clayton to research the issues people have had using them with coal. They are a wood burner first and coal secondary. It can be done, but they seem to be trickier to learn their personalities and even need fans added to the ash pan area in some cases. There are success stories, but their sloped firebox walls vs. vertical and narrower shaker grate area that have ways for the air to bypass the coal bed seem to make it more challenging.

I recommend getting a stove that is designed to burn coal first and as a secondary purpose can also burn wood. There are good choices you should compare to the hotblast, pricing is not much different and you can stay below your $3k budget easily for a hand fed. DSMachine and Hitzer are two that I would start with. If you look at stokers, Leisure Line is where I would start. Stokers will be pricier than hand feds.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:54 am

Forgot to add that a 50lb coal capacity listed for that stove is not very much coal. My Harman Mark III can hold over 80lbs which makes a big difference in burn times in the real cold weather.

US Stove Hot Blast Furnace Problems

Here is a thread you should read so you know what you are getting into.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: Dennis On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:14 am

ad356 wrote:for $1,099 I think it can be beat, unless its a real piece of junk which I don't think they are.

titleist1 wrote:I recommend getting a stove that is designed to burn coal first and as a secondary purpose can also burn wood. There are good choices you should compare to the hotblast, pricing is not much different and you can stay below your $3k budget easily for a hand fed. DSMachine and Hitzer are two that I would start with. If you look at stokers, Leisure Line is where I would start. Stokers will be pricier than hand feds.

Most people who bought the hot blast and any of the USS duel fuel furnace's(about99% of them) have had too many issues burning coal in them,but the burn wood fine,use the search button and read,read,read about them before purchasing the furnace.Member "lightning" has a clayton furnace and has very good success with his,only after pain stakingly modifing his furnace and is very happy with his now.I would PM him and i'm sure he will give good advice on weather to purchase the hotblast furnace or not,I just don't want a new coal burner getting a bad feel for coal.Good luck and welcome,don't be afraid to ask questions,we all went thru the "learning curve" and without this fourm, many happy coal burners would of been turned off of coal.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: Wiz On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:03 am

Questions needs answers.. Does tractor supply carry parts? Have you read reviews on model? Willing to load and remove ash more frequent then other brands? How good is customer care? Like other said, better off getting one that burns just coal. Do your homework before purchasing any stove your looking to get, add up pros and cons.
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:08 am

Yeah I agree the Hot Blast/Clayton furnaces have their handicaps. Had I not been persistent, I may have given up with mine. This will be my third year with the Clayton. It took some tinkering/modifications with the fire box and experimentation with shake down and reloading technique to get consistent results. The sloped sides are dealt with by forcing the coal towards the grate with a tool I made. I've got a good grip on it now.

For me, the Clayton has been a good entry level appliance. It's taught me a lot about coal. I will eventually replace it in the next few years with possibly a stoker or another hand fed furnace that is more designed for coal than multi fuel.

Look on Craig's List for a used appliance. I bought my Clayton for $650 in excellent condition.

Here are a few threads that might help. The video was done while I was burning red ash with heavy fines so shake down and reload is actually a little easier with good clean coal.

Fixing Play Between Inline Grates

Hot Water Coil Project

Tending the Clayton Hand Fed Furnace - Video
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:19 pm

Coal in a Koker is badass...read up on them using the *SEARCH* button.

Would be great to find a USED one...but that may be difficult.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: ad356 On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:18 pm

http://hitzer.com/products/stove/Model- ... r-Furnace/

or this
http://hitzer.com/products/stove/Model- ... -I-Stoker/

or hand fed

http://hitzer.com/products/stove/Model-82-Furnace/

what about this one?? looks like a heating beast. 150K btu heating capacity. how much does this unit cost. there are 3 hitzer dealers withihn 30 miles, so one of their products is not out of the question.
a stoker would be ideal because they are more or less hands free operation. that's the way my harman stove is, but what i dont like about the harman is that it has a 60 lbs capacity hopper, i can fill it to the brim go to work and come home to an almost or even completely empty stove. that's right it will chew through a full 60 lbs of pellets durning the course of a 12 hour work day (i work 12's). i was at the dealer and i looked at a magnum stoker, i noticed that while i was standing their it barely if at all fed any more coal in. i was probably standing there 5 minutes. a pellet stove will constantly feed pellets. coal must burn significantly. my other wonder if that if i bought a magnum stoker, could i move the harman out to the garage and heat a 900 sq foot un-insulated garage with a 63,000 btu harman?

i have had one experience with a US stove company product, im glad you guys talked me out of hotblast because i had a crummy experience with one of their pellet stoves. it was a 5510 "king" and it was aweful. it never burned properly, put out NO where near enough heat to heat my home, i was loud, and had to cleaned every 4-5 days. it was a peice of junk and i bought it on my nieghbors advance, he told me there wasnt much of a different between the cheap stoves and the great stoves. i will tell you there is a huge difference. the harman is a great stove, and while i do love it for what it is, i am not unhappy with it as a stove, i am sick of the cost of the pellets, cold floors, and heat that is not properly distrubuted around the house. i want central heat, and i do not want natural gas.

i think the model 55 furnace wouldnt be big enough, its only rated at 60,000 btu, which if i was distrubuting the heat evenly around the house, i dont know if that would be enough. as i said 110 year old 2 story farm house.
ad356
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: P61 pellet thinking about coal

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: Rigar On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:57 pm

good to see ya thinking this thru...you definately "get what ya pay for"...
with that said...of the 3 units u listed...i would prob opt for the 710 model.
.
for the most part it sounds like you essentially have all duct work in place...so why not compliment it with an actual furnace ?
7000 to 160 000 btu indicates it is capable of idlingat low consumption rates...but when the need arises it will certainly be up to the task.
some may think its 'too big' for your house...and i would strongly disagree based on the info given.

...good luck

btw...what is your clay flu outlet size at top of chimney?
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: thininkg about buying a coal furance

PostBy: ad356 On: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:01 pm

how much is that unit? also i kind of have short ceiling in the basement. im 5'6" and i have to watch my head. is that an issue. i can stand up in my basement, i just have to be careful, im guessing the celing is right around 5'6"
ad356
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman
Stove/Furnace Model: P61 pellet thinking about coal

Visit Lehigh Anthracite