Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:22 pm

badlegdave wrote:I asked barnstablestove about this vent just above the oval exhause outlet and they said to keep it closed.

When and how is this check damper used?

Like a barometric damper it will check or reduce high draft. It was a way to better control the fire during high draft conditions, especially in a stove that was not very well sealed in the ash door area. Because it will remain open if the draft condition changes to low draft it can be very dangerous under those conditions being prone to leak carbon monoxide into the house. It's just too potentially dangerous to use. The barometric damper will automatically close under low draft conditions and open with high draft providing the chimney draft is capable of it. Much safer and more uniform draft.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: badlegdave On: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:34 pm

So you believe me to be wise to go ahead and install the barometric damper. I have had it for months and would think that if I tried to return it I would be met with uproarious glee.
badlegdave
 
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut
Stove/Furnace Make: Union Stove Works
Stove/Furnace Model: Invader 2

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: badlegdave On: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:36 pm

coalnewbie, am I to understand that you have a 120 year old Invader 2 that has never been fired?
badlegdave
 
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut
Stove/Furnace Make: Union Stove Works
Stove/Furnace Model: Invader 2

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: badlegdave On: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:43 pm

as memory serves, I believe that the nut coal was falling through the area where the grate meets the fire pot by the fingers. I mentioned that the fingers are warped due to heavy use in days gone by and has caused a larger space to be present between the fingers and the grate. I believe this is were I loose the coal to the ash drawer. Incidentally, my ash drawer is heavily rotted out. Did I read were someone within the brotherhood makes them? How can I get a replacement?
badlegdave
 
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut
Stove/Furnace Make: Union Stove Works
Stove/Furnace Model: Invader 2

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:18 pm

badlegdave wrote:So you believe me to be wise to go ahead and install the barometric damper. I have had it for months and would think that if I tried to return it I would be met with uproarious glee.

I would install it, though the purists with antique stoves mostly prefer a manual damper. In a stove with manually adjusted air intake any change in draft will change the burning rate. With a barometric damper those changes are automatically held to a minimum by the damper opening when the draft exceeds a set point and closing when the draft decreases. It can only modify draft in excess of the set point, it can't increase it, but if draft is low it does not impede it further as a manual damper partially closed would do. How well it will work is also dependent on the chimney, with those chimneys subject to wide swings in draft being the most in need.

You already have it so why not use it? The maker of your stove also felt there was a need to control the draft further which is why they built that check damper into the stove.

Do the dollar bill test on the ash door and also check the fit of the air adjustment. Both have to be tight.

You still have to cure that downdraft in the chimney. Light some paper and hold it into the chimney thimble to see if a little heat makes it draw, but only do that if you can do it safely.

Some pictures of the grate would also be nice. It is strange that nut coal falls through.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: badlegdave On: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:07 pm

good thoughts franco b. I am so looking forward to examing my stove this weekend knowing that I now have some knowledgeable guidance waiting for my pictures.
Can you suggest the thickness of seal that I will need for the ash door?
I have a wood insert in my NJ fireplace and I have changed the gasket several times so that should be fairly easy. The door on the coal stove is not as heavy as the large cast wood stove doors so I would think that a smaller gasket would be necessary however maybe I should just take the door off and bring it home where I have several resources for repair help.
badlegdave
 
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut
Stove/Furnace Make: Union Stove Works
Stove/Furnace Model: Invader 2

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: wsherrick On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:50 am

Definitely put on a standard pipe damper in the stove pipe. These were meant to have one and they are necessary to have the most control over you stove. I'm not a big believer in barometric dampers, but; if it makes you feel better put it in. If it destroys your draft you can always block it.
These stoves were made so all of the doors fit tightly without gasketing of any kind. From reading here it seems that your stove has not been restored. Most all stoves need to be restored before they operate the way they did when new.
Most of time loose fitting doors are due to worn or bent hinge pins. The pins are made of a soft steel. The easiest cure is carefully bend them back to where the door fits tightly. Some times they need to be replaced. When a stove is restored they are always replaced with new pins.
You need to insure that all of the seams in the stove are airtight. This is a must.
The ash pit doors must also fit perfectly tight as well as the damper controls.
Any decent sheet metal shop can quickly make you a new ash pan. It will be very cheap.
Again, these stoves in proper condition are simply mind boggling as to the high levels of efficiency that they are easily capable of.
This is not just an old stove. It's a work of art and applied scientific engineering. You have a prize there.
It should be on the main level of the house.
wsherrick
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: None
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: None
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: None
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: None
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: None
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:50 am

wsherrick wrote:Definitely put on a standard pipe damper in the stove pipe. These were meant to have one and they are necessary to have the most control over you stove. I'm not a big believer in barometric dampers.


Here we Goooooo! :lol: (Inside Joke around here BLDave ;) )

I think its very hard to apply our modern apparatuses to old world design like this, they did not even have Carbon Monoxide detectors back then and they ran these beauties 24/7 to stay alive (maybe family's were dropping like fly's back then, but I somehow doubt it, I don't know?)... But I tend to agree with William on the subject of placing a Baro on an antique baseburner (It just doesn't seem right :cry: )
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: DePippo79 On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:19 pm

I've only been running my stove for a couple weeks now off and on. My wife does not like to be cold. I rather play with the stove than have her turn the oil burner on. I have a manual pipe damper only and can pretty much make the stove run at whatever temp I want. Think of it as adjusting the air fuel mixture in a carburetor. The only way to learn is to experiment. Don't be afraid to try new things. Good luck. Matt
PS: Patiently waiting for those pictures.
DePippo79
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak 40
Coal Size/Type: Stove, nut/anthracite

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:26 pm

dcrane wrote:(maybe family's were dropping like fly's back then, but I somehow doubt it,

They weren't dropping like flies but it was very common to read in the paper of people overcome by coal gas. Going into most houses with coal heat you could smell the sulfur smell.

The lessons learned in the days of early parlor stoves were promptly forgotten and the central heating furnaces and boilers were abortions in terms of proper combustion chamber design. To control them, all too often check dampers were relied on to control the fire with many sad results. Barometric dampers could have saved a lot of lives.

My own experience with a manual damper on my Glenwood Oak is that with the stove burning steadily the manual damper controlled the draft very well which I monitored with a manometer permanently installed. I see nothing wrong with a manual damper provided you pay attention and learn the foibles of your stove and chimney. For those installations with wide swings in draft the barometric will provide more uniform burns.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:40 pm

badlegdave wrote:good thoughts franco b. I am so looking forward to examing my stove this weekend knowing that I now have some knowledgeable guidance waiting for my pictures.
Can you suggest the thickness of seal that I will need for the ash door?
I have a wood insert in my NJ fireplace and I have changed the gasket several times so that should be fairly easy. The door on the coal stove is not as heavy as the large cast wood stove doors so I would think that a smaller gasket would be necessary however maybe I should just take the door off and bring it home where I have several resources for repair help.

It's not that simple. Any sealing or gasketing has to be a custom job for that door and the surface it seals on. It may need nothing, but has to be checked first. Applying a gasket around the door will probably result in not being able to close the door. The door flange is thin, maybe 3/16 or less in width. Do the dollar bill test first.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:16 pm

Mine latches and sits perfectly with just a simple push - this stove was from a great foundry.

If you remove the side foot rest, and remove the side panel you will see a tiny screw to adjust the lower hinge of the ash door. The stove needs to be leveled properly on set up and this hinge determines how the ash door sits and how the stove is leveled on the base. When adjusted correctly the ash door just closes perfectly against the stove body with no gasket and no I am not taking it part again to show you. A Swiss watch of a stove that needs finesse. No wham bam thx madam here, this is not Freetown Corners here (a private joke). Everything on those stoves had a reason for being there. Forget the gasket idea you will regret it, adjust the hinge pins if you must.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: badlegdave On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:55 pm

I find all this advice very exciting and I will be traveling to Gods holding area before heaven, the Poconos, tomorrow evening. I shall make you tired with the pictures I will take. Pictures should post Sunday evening unless an event occurs which I hope will delay my stay. Thanks guys.
badlegdave
 
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut
Stove/Furnace Make: Union Stove Works
Stove/Furnace Model: Invader 2

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: badlegdave On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:57 pm

Also, maybe someone can respond before noon Friday morning. Temperature in the Poc's is forcast to be in the 50's saturday evening. Is that too warm to try to start a coal fire?
badlegdave
 
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut
Stove/Furnace Make: Union Stove Works
Stove/Furnace Model: Invader 2

Re: Union Stove Works Invader 2 Parlour coal stove

PostBy: badlegdave On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:35 am

franco b.
You mention once the coal fire is going well I need to switch into base burning mode. How is that done?
badlegdave
 
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut
Stove/Furnace Make: Union Stove Works
Stove/Furnace Model: Invader 2

Visit Hitzer Stoves