how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: buffalo bob On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:53 pm

shoman70 wrote:Current thimble is at 20 inches. New stove would tie in at 32 inches. Current hole will be patched up so if i drill new hole at 32 inches. Can i run straight into chimney?

no problem...go for it...all u are doing is raising 12 inches just close up the 29 in. hole good....
buffalo bob
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: anthracite nut

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: shoman70 On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:59 pm

photo_2.jpg
(150.93 KiB) Viewed 5 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]43934[/nepathumb]
i still don't understand why the company that wants to install the stove, said something about replacing 20-30 bricks, the way i see it is patch up the old hole and drill new hole and put new crock and seal around opening. company is talking about new brick work.. i think i may seek out another company.
Last edited by shoman70 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
shoman70
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: ds 1600

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:07 pm

good idea...
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: shoman70 On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:10 pm

not sure if i am missing something here, but i dont think that many bricks would need to be replaced
shoman70
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: ds 1600

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:15 pm

shoman70 wrote:
photo_2.jpg
i still don't understand why the company that wants to install the stove, said something about replacing 20-30 bricks, the way i see it is patch up the old hole and drill new hole and put new crock and seal around opening. company is talking about new brick work.. i think i may seek out another company.

I suspect they would rather not get into smashing the old brick work which could lead to a lot of patching and not look good. I think the ideal way is to drill the new hole with the machine intended for drilling holes for chimney in concrete foundations. Nice perfect hole through brick.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: shoman70 On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:20 pm

is a thimble the same thing as a croc?
shoman70
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: ds 1600

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm

shoman70 wrote:is a thimble the same thing as a croc?


...essentially -yes

im catching onto what MIGHT be their concern...(although the height their shooting for doesnt make sense)
the 'croc' is the terra cotta pass thru to get into the chimney....which most ppl refer to as the thimble.
NFPA standards require 12 inches of masonry around all sides of the croc...
its possible your chimney (at that height ) is actually recessed or buried further into the wall(hard to explain)
maybe they were aware of something and failed to explain it well
...just a thought
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:25 am

Rigar wrote:
shoman70 wrote:is a thimble the same thing as a croc?


...essentially -yes

im catching onto what MIGHT be their concern...(although the height their shooting for doesnt make sense)
the 'croc' is the terra cotta pass thru to get into the chimney....which most ppl refer to as the thimble.
NFPA standards require 12 inches of masonry around all sides of the croc...
its possible your chimney (at that height ) is actually recessed or buried further into the wall(hard to explain)
maybe they were aware of something and failed to explain it well
...just a thought


good thought, maybe that's what his installer was thinking but I don't think its necessary and I damb sure would not get into ripping out the wall and building out more brick work... I think with dbl wall through pipe or burned clay thimble id go right through that existing brick at the height needed and call it a day. (just curious... whats outside? do you have a full masonry chimney out their? pics please?)
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: shoman70 On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:22 am

yes it is a full mason chimney. see pics
Attachments
clean out.JPG
(168.7 KiB) Viewed 4 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]43953[/nepathumb]
clean out box.JPG
(102.3 KiB) Viewed 2 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]43954[/nepathumb]
clean out.JPG
(167.56 KiB) Viewed 5 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]43956[/nepathumb]
chimney.JPG
(123.95 KiB) Viewed 4 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]43957[/nepathumb]
shoman70
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: ds 1600

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:34 am

i agree dcrane....
my only thought was if indeed that was originally a fireplace (big if) then there may not be actual chimney immediately available right behind the wall at the height he needs.
its odd that his existing thimble is only 20 inches off the floor....???
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:43 am

I would open up that exterior clean out and in the daylight with a mirror and flash lite check in the chimney (fireplace?) for an offset, smoke shelf, steel damper, etc.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:45 am

just a thought shoman...

can you remove the existing stove (and pipe) ant take a flashlight and actuall look in your existg thimble to get an idea of what is there?
measure to the back of it from the face of ur inside wall?
i also noticed a cleanout on outside of house...put a light up there as well and then look into the thimble....maybe youll see something as to whats really behind the finished wall?
....just thinking outloud...
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: shoman70 On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:52 am

ok later today when i get home i will look into chimney with flash light and investigate. i would think if there was a fieplace there in the past, that all the bricks wouldn't match. as you can see in the pics i post earlier all the bricks match 100 percent..
shoman70
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: ds 1600

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: Rigar On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:03 am

they were an excellent match...i agree
...but the ones insde appeared newer (imo)...or at least done by someone else
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: how far up chimney do i need a new croc for a bigger stove

PostBy: buffalo bob On: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:47 am

Rigar wrote:they were an excellent match...i agree
...but the ones insde appeared newer (imo)...or at least done by someone else

the brick inside are NOT weathered like the outside...that looks like a regular chimney to me, good pics..but the flashlite mirrow trick will settle it for you..pencil a circle on the wall bout 1inch bigger than the new crock,then drill all around ur circle and knock the brick out, starting in the middle so not to ruin the edge. take ur time use a sharp mason chisel then drill a hole in the liner inside behind the brick and very gradually enlarge the hole in the liner.i would (swiss cheese) the liner and tap it out...now ur ready to put the new crock/thimble in..the crock should only protrude into the liner about 1 inch max. then pack remaining gap between crock and brick work with mortar..and then ur done...just make sure u get the mortar packed in real good use ur hands to reach in the new crock and back pack the gap seal it as good as u can...on the face side use a small slicker to push mortar in around the crock..dont leave more than 1/2 inch or so protrude into the room.then all u have to do is drink a few beers and watch it dry..lol..then dress it all up, after ur pipe is in with a metal chimney ring and ur all done...should take less than a day to do...
buffalo bob
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 354
Coal Size/Type: anthracite nut

Visit Hitzer Stoves