Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: gweedow On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:28 pm

Hello all,
I really need your advise on this problem about a chimney liner. I just had today 9/26, a chimney liner installer come for an estimate to in stall a liner down my chimney. After checking every thing in the basement, and then going on the roof to inspect chimney, He came to me and said, I can't install a liner down your chimney. He said the holes or shaft going down the chimney is a tight 6 inches. And there is no way he could get a liner down that space. I ask can't you reduce the liner down to 4 inch. He said noway, It's not allowed and the liner could get clogged up with that reduction. I just looked on a site that sells liner kits. They even have a 5and a half inch liner. I did not call him back about this size, but was wondering if that 5 and a half inch size would be o.k. ?
But, if they would put insulation around that smaller size then I guess it still would not fit. You see my house will soon be 100 years old. An old company house once for there coal miners. The furnace installers who installed my combination oil/coal furnace a year ago (newmac) looked in my chimney and said it was lined with that cement that long time ago. But could not tell if all was intact. I have a clean out door at the bottom of the chimney and cleaned a lot of soot and creosote out just by scooping up with my hand. I used the furnace last winter both the oil and mostly coal burning. If I cant put a liner down the chimney, I'll just keep an extra watch when I run the furnace. I did feel just a little bit warm on the chimney in my living room last winter, but not alot. Allso my chimney shaft dose go at a little angle once it gets to the basement. Sorry for the long post. But any suggestions or what may work?? Thanks,Jim
gweedow
 

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:37 pm

I think its questionable that you even need a liner.. But I'm no chimney expert.. I do know that liners are sometimes installed when they aren't necessary just for the installer to make a buck. He is right about a reduction though, not a good idea..
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:52 pm

What he said........................

Get a chimney sweep or a chimney professional to look at your chimney. But make sure it is someone who DOES NOT sell liners. Most chimneys do not need liners. And especially if you are burning coal. Burning coal creates sulfur dioxide which when combined with moisture will turn into sulfuric acid which eats liners apart. Even the "good" ones made out of stainless steel and rated for coal will not last. How do I know ??? Our was eaten apart in a few short years. The "lifetime" warranty only covers the liner not the installation of a replacement.

Start reading here: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?





Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work


Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:53 pm

Run a brush through the chimney and then inspect. One member lowered his cell phone to inspect. There are special cameras to do that. Inquire of other chimney cleaners for inspection pictures. Years of fly ash build up will look just like cement and be hard.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:19 pm

ditto what they all said
inspect it urself if you can ...if the flue tiles look sound and joints look good you should be fine

outta curiousity what is your new stoves output btu ?
(this is only worse case scenario if your chimney is really bad inside)
what is ur flue outlet dimensions- I know you said a tight 6 inches....but is it square or rectangle ?
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: Wiz On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:45 pm

Is it possible that one point in time someone burned wood? Wondering if creosote is making flue smaller. My house chimney had 4 in opening in flue, 9 five gal buckets later and back to 8 in flue. Previous owner did poor job in cleaning it
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:52 pm

I have seen an 8 inch square flue reduced to about a 2 inch hole from hardened fly ash that was like cement.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:12 pm

Yesterday I drove past a home having a liner installed. Two guys were stretching the liner on the lawn and today approx. 10 ft. of the liner is sticking out of the chimney, I stopped and asked the owner ( who was pacing on his lawn, installers no where to be found ) what was happening with the liner and said it got stuck in the chimney and the installers said they would be back :roll: He said he is having a coal boiler installed and the place that sold the boiler recommended a liner per fire code! Got the guy scared and I bet he never had the chimney inspected.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:26 pm

michaelanthony wrote:Yesterday I drove past a home having a liner installed. Two guys were stretching the liner on the lawn and today approx. 10 ft. of the liner is sticking out of the chimney, I stopped and asked the owner ( who was pacing on his lawn, installers no where to be found ) what was happening with the liner and said it got stuck in the chimney and the installers said they would be back :roll: He said he is having a coal boiler installed and the place that sold the boiler recommended a liner per fire code! Got the guy scared and I bet he never had the chimney inspected.


That's terrible.. I can see how its easy to take advantage of a new coal burner though. The first year I burned coal I put up a single wall stove pipe chimney outside 26 feet high bracketed to the side of the house because I thought my block and mortar chimney wasn't any good :lol: :lol: Nothing could have been further from the truth!! Sulfuric acid destroyed my stove pipe chimney in one winter :lol: :lol: I rebuilt the top two layers of block that was deteriorated on the chimney and it works fantastic...
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:35 pm

That's terrible.. I can see how its easy to take advantage of a new coal burner though. The first year I burned coal I put up a single wall stove pipe chimney outside 26 feet high bracketed to the side of the house because I thought my block and mortar chimney wasn't any good :lol: :lol: Nothing could have been further from the truth!! Sulfuric acid destroyed my stove pipe chimney in one winter :lol: :lol: I rebuilt the top two layers of block that was deteriorated on the chimney and it works fantastic...[/quote]

The real kick in the shorts is the dealer went strictly Harman this past yr. He previously sold other types new and used and the brother and nephews are the installers. The LAST time I purchased coal from him I asked about the change and his reply was "my insurance won't let me sell second hand stoves" :lol: I didn't know Harman was a insurance co.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Lightning wrote:
michaelanthony wrote:Yesterday I drove past a home having a liner installed. Two guys were stretching the liner on the lawn and today approx. 10 ft. of the liner is sticking out of the chimney, I stopped and asked the owner ( who was pacing on his lawn, installers no where to be found ) what was happening with the liner and said it got stuck in the chimney and the installers said they would be back :roll: He said he is having a coal boiler installed and the place that sold the boiler recommended a liner per fire code! Got the guy scared and I bet he never had the chimney inspected.


That's terrible.. I can see how its easy to take advantage of a new coal burner though. The first year I burned coal I put up a single wall stove pipe chimney outside 26 feet high bracketed to the side of the house because I thought my block and mortar chimney wasn't any good :lol: :lol: Nothing could have been further from the truth!! Sulfuric acid destroyed my stove pipe chimney in one winter :lol: :lol: I rebuilt the top two layers of block that was deteriorated on the chimney and it works fantastic...


sad to say, This is done on a daily basis across the country.

If the poster has a liner already (cement or clay or whatever), he should simply have it cleaned by a good sweep and inspect it himself (if its in tack then why are we trying to fix it or line it with stainless that we know is going to fail in a few short years? id rather have the old clay or cement liner myself)
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: MattFoley772 On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:57 pm

There are flexible oval or rectangular liners when round won't fit. Liner needs to be equivalent area of flue size.

area = pi x radius squared

For 6" round flue: 3.14 x 3 x 3 = 28 sq. in.
8": 3.14 x 4 x 4 = 50 sq. in.
MattFoley772
 
Stove/Furnace Make: ?
Stove/Furnace Model: ?

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: oilman On: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:27 pm

If the guy didn't know about oval liners like Matt mentioned, I wouldn't have him doing it.
I have customers with 20 + year old liners and/or metal chimneys using coal, still intact. Quality varies among manufactuers.
oilman
 

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:33 pm

Never heard of any kind of liner lasting 20 yrs except real part time burners. Why do you think you need a liner-- have YOU looked up/down the chimney? It strikes me if you got 6 inches ya either got clay liners or something?????????????? Some pix of your set up would really help
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Please need your expert advise,not enough space for liner.

PostBy: Xwoodburner On: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:34 pm

hey partner
I would have it cleaned and inspected by a chimney repair company who can scope it with a camera and let them show you what needs repaired. I would also reccomend a low level carbon monoxide monitor
Xwoodburner
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Clayton
Stove/Furnace Model: 1600 m