picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:01 pm

HI all,

been lurking here reading up on things since this spring when i decided to retire my current and LONG term Riteway #37.

i bought that stove used in the summer of '88 and have had it in 4 houses, where it has always done well. i found pretty early that it is a much better coal stove than wood and have only burned wood in it to get coal going since.

for those that may not be too familiar with this stove, it's a kind of over large radiant in the side load, long width wise grate layout. grates like a hitzer but loaded from the end rather than front. 75,000 BTU max out put. 7" dia. pipe and flue lining 21' up an interior chimney.

any way, fuel is nut anthracite, usual tending 5 am / 5 pm, run about 40 #'s a day during heat season except when it's -20F and blowing (usually a week or 10 days a yr.) when i put 60 #'s a day thru it. i only burn after it's not getting above 50F during the day and only till it's 50F again. usually about 2.5 tons a season but it has been 3.5 once or twice.

this stove has always been more than enough in every house, like, leaving windows open to varying levels depending on solar gain or lack of true cold. so much so that i have never been able to run it above or over an idle. i literally put a dime between the magnet and the damper, turn the bimetal dial all the way down and just let it run.

so............ the wife wanted new floors and decorating this yr. and i decided to get a new stove too. have decided on D.S. Machine, but............ i'm not sure which on to get.

i have 600 sq ft on three floors. we don't heat the basement and get all the heat we want on 2nd floor up the open stair case. so i'm primarily heating 600 sq ft.

we have an entry / living room with the stairs up the west exterior wall, an 8 ft tall, 8 ft wide arch into a dining room and a kitchen thru an open door way the whole length of the dining room, again on the west exterior wall. stove is in the corner of the living room near the arch into the dining room. all this has 9 ft. ceilings. ceiling fans in both living room and dining but not needed or used in heat season.

i've been casting back and forth between the 1300 and 1400 circulator stoves, and finally decided to just ask for input. the 1300 i though ti may have to run pretty hard if we get a long serious cold spell and the 1400 i figured i could idle the whole season like the riteway.

any replies greatly appre'd, thanks

steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:34 pm

Are you looking for another hand fired stove or a stoker?
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: joeq On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:25 pm

Welcome aboard Steve.
Someone with more experience will be along soon to give you some practical advice. I myself just wanted to welcome you to the forum. I'm sure you've got much more coal burning experience than me, but I'm just gunna thro this out there (fwiw.) I'm still potty training on my Surdiac 513, and it's rated about 50K BTUs, and my house seems similar to yours. 1500-1600 Sq upstairs and downstairs, and my stove is located off the living area, and with a few strategically placed fans, will "almost" make "most" of the rooms toasty warm. You know how it is, when you walk from one room that's 75* into another that's a "bitter" cold 69*. :roll: (or so my kids tell me). When the outside temps are in the 20s, my upstairs hallway is 80-85, while the downstairs is 70-75*. i also fire mine up when the temps are as you say. I can't say I've ever needed to crank mine up high on the thermostat either, and usually don't want to, to conserve coal and keep the ash to a minimum. So maybe you could get away with the smaller stove, and use the thermostat for what it's intended to do. (?) Good luck on your new purchase.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Surdiac Gotha 513
Stove/Furnace Make: Oil fired
Stove/Furnace Model: Thermopride

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Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:43 pm

thanks for the replies and welcome guys.

i'm going with either the 1300 or 1400 D S circulator, hand fed hopper stove.

i figure on the average i've been running this Riteway at or below 15% of it's capacity, or about 11,000 BTU constant while it's running. that's "hoosirbilly' math, so any one who can 'cypher all that "area of grate x depth of firebed x #'s of fuel less hours of burn " and what all, please correct as needed, thanks.

so.........it SEEMS i should have more than enough reserve with the 1300. BUT.........i am SO accustomed to the "football field" ( i'm sure you vets here recognize that quote ) sprawling fire bed of the Riteway it's hard to imagine getting the same heat from a 14 x12 fire box and grates.

BUT, i am also a life long motorcyclist and have gone thru the realization that the modern asian and euro bikes are leagues apart and beyond in technology and operation the early v twins i was once so in love with. i now own several of them too. so i'm ready to embrace the same reality in a coal stove.

that said, at 60, i'm set in some ways, and rather enjoy actually being part of the operation so will stay with hand fed. it's part of the coping process of winter for me.

still wanting to hear concerns, opinions.

thanks,
steve

PS have removed all the 7" flue lining and installed new 6" 316 Ti smooth wall flex liner top to bottom.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: dcrane On: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:40 pm

Ok, Ok... Im guilty of the football quote toothy

Go with the 1300, my guess is the BTU rating is low on this unit! (even that small one looks like a big square beast to me).
I will say it does appear to be constructed good and I like their natural occurring heat exchanger tubes (pretty damb smart).
the airwash holes look like the grand canyon (but hopefully they will fill up and clog in time because being that large damb sure wont help function).
I cant speak for that grate at all, I guess it does not warp out (though it sure looks like it would), and I guess it functions ok because nobody complains about it (it better because you don't have any second options for slicing by the look of it).
Easy replace firebrick is certainly easy & cheap to replace whenever needed, It does not even look like its cemented in :lol: (some pluses & minus to that).

get the 1300, if that Sponge Bob Beast cant heat your house somethings wrong!

Don't forget to post up some pics when she's up :clap:
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:42 am

thanks dcrane. i thought i'd light ya up with the "football field" quote. LOL

thanks for the thoughts, i was hoping a few guys would jump in here with ideas about my estimate of the level of out put i've been using with the Riteway too.

steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:42 am

here's a few other figures i've established.

the riteway #37 has a 12 x 24 grate system for 288 sq. inches. once the stove is running i just "laddle" 20ish #'s of coal on top of the full depth (10 inches ) of the fire bed every 12 hrs. and let it idle.

the 1300 has an advertized 12 x14 grate system for 168 sq. inches. don't know the depth of the fire bed on the 1300 but with the hopper it's almost irrelevant, there is going to be "some depth" of burning coal being replenished by the hopper as it sinks down till it goes out or is tended.

if i was using less than 15% of the capacity of the riteway ( 75000 btu )at an estimated 11,000btu, it seems i would need to use about 22% of the 1300's capacity (50000 btu ) to make the same amount of heat.

it SEEMS to me that i should be more than safe with the 1300 even in the worst historical local cold spell.

does any of this make sense ?

thanks,
steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:03 am

Going by your coal consumption i think you will be safe. The combination of more compact fire box plus hopper should make for a more efficient burn especially at low outputs. I think you will have a much easier time with this stove.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:39 am

thank you franco b, much apprec'd.

in all fairness, the riteway was pretty simple to manage. just shake it down add an appropriate amount of coal and walk away. never had to adjust it.

because it was over kill every where i used it the skill was in managing the envelope, opening windows on the then leeward side of the house and not forgetting them. LOL
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:40 am

little more info and #'s i knew was here but had to hunt it up again.

this thread BTU output question has the calculations for btu from sq. inches of grate etc.

the last post has a quote from Amos about the estimate of 400 btu per burning inch.

doing a little # crunching i've found that number would need to slide in order to stay in line with the advertized out put of the 4 circulators.

1300 stove being 300
1400 stove being 360
1500 stove being 375
1600 stove being 400

it seems to me this could easily be accounted for by the varying mass of total fire bed in the stoves.

had a helpful PM from another member about the 1300 in a very similar use layout as mine that related difficulty keeping up when conditions are -20F and windy. this a concern for me as i see that for a week to 10days sometimes 2 weeks about every yr.

so called D.S. and was advised to go with the 1400 for my use so that pretty much nails it down for me.

sure apprec. all the response and the huge archive of info here on the forum.

steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:35 am

well, now i don't now what to think.

just ran the calculation from the "BTU" thread using the sq. ft. of the 1300 stove.

being 1.1666666 sq ft grate area x .65 percent of eff. x 8 #'s per sq ft. x 125000 btu per # of anthracite

1.1666666 x .65 x 8 x 12500 = 75833 out put.

now that is a VAST diff. from what the manufacturer claims for that stove and just doesn't seem possible. working from the area of the other stoves they all come out very high.

what gives ?

EDIT

reworked the % of eff. to 45 (.45) and the calculation falls right in line. interesting.

further EDIT

found another issue, i've been using the "fire box" area not the actual grate area. the grate area is clearly smaller than the firebox area and is affecting the equation. i'll see if i can get the correct area.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:00 pm

What is possible and what is practical are two different things. At those extreme firing rates the heat exchange ability of the stove is overwhelmed and with sky high stack temperatures the overall efficiency of the stove would plummet. Stove temperatures would also make it difficult to even approach the stove to service and stove life itself would be short.

Car speedometers can go up to 120 MPH but very few cars can.

As a rule of thumb I cut the manufacturer's rating in half for real world figures.

The best guide is how many pounds you burned in the old stove for satisfactory heat.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:11 pm

franco b,

i've re-run the calculation of the 1300 using an estimated 8" x 14" grate area rendered from a pic of that actual stoves grates.

using .7777777 x .65 x 8 x 12500 = 50555. impressive

much more reasonable result and as such i'll still go with the 1400 based on my former coal use, related experience of other member and the rec. from D.S.

thanks,
steve

EDIT

using the actual grate size of my Riteway, 1.6666666 x .45 (totally believable, since it was a "combo stove") x 8 x 12500= 74999

manufacturers claim 75000, that's one nice equation when used properly.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:49 pm

You reported a 12x14 area for the 1300 in a previous post. In any case the 8 pound figure means over 200 pounds a day. Not very likely.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: picking new stove, thoughts or comments ?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:20 pm

yes, but the 12 x 14 area for the 1300 is in fact the firebox area not the critical grate area. the grate area of the 1300 is more properly 8 x 14.

yes as well to the idea of burning 8 #'s an hour, you might ONCE in an outdoor setting, but it would still prove difficult at best and the stove would surely never survive.

but, it's still useful to see how and where the manufacturers come up with these claims and how what is reasonable should be considered.

the whole "take 50% of the out put or sq.ft claim and if that is enough for your actual application then you are likely good to go" is proved out once again.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

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