A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Rigar On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:24 am

lsayre wrote:My calculations only considered home heating. For most of the days of the year only a small fraction of these 400K BTU's would be needed for home heating, and an abundance of excess BTU's would be available for the pool.


the pool and the room it is in will be the wildcard.
unless it is essentially abandoned during the summer (drained)...the pool and that room will
have to be heated...unless ur a member of the polar bear club :lol:

...indoor pools can be problematic when its warm OUTSIDE- as the tendancy to use them (an indoor pool) decreases..Its probably just human nature- but most ppl wont come (inside) on a hot day to go swimming ...(in a cold space)
Ive seen alot of ppl learn the hard way (despite words of caution) that a large indoor pool isnt all its cracked up to be- especially during the summer months
...im not trying to dicourage the pool- but realize it will need to be heated yr round to enjoy...emphasis on 'year round'
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
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Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:25 pm

But Done right...
An indoor pool is very nice...
You have a very big pool room...
With the proper mechanicals to control humidity and temperature...
It will become 'The Place' to go...
Nice indoor grotto and nobody will want to leave...
http://www.houzz.com/photos/423267/Grotto-Swim-Up-Bar--Kitchen-and-Dry-Entertainment-Area-mediterranean-pool-oklahoma-city
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:41 pm

How is the boiler heat going to be distributed throughout the dungeon? Hot water baseboards?

if it is hot water baseboards, then by my calculations each individual room to be heated in the dungeon will need to have 0.0732 feet of 3/4" copper fin-tube hot water baseboards for every square foot of floor space that the individual room has.

3/4" Copper Fin-Tube HWB's are typically rated to deliver 560 BTU's per linear foot.

For the entire dungeon:
6,000 sq-ft overall x 0.0732 feet per sq-ft = ~440 linear feet of total HW baseboard needed

The whole house proof check for this is: 440 feet x 560 BTU's/foot = ~246,000 BTU's delivered across the entire dungeon.

Now lets assume that one of the individual rooms has 800 sq-ft of floor space.
0.0732 x 800 = ~59 feet of total HW baseboards are needed for that individual room.
59 x 560 = 33,000 BTU's that are needed for this room

More proof checking:
33,000 BTU's/3.412 BTU's per watt = 9,671 watts
9671 watts/800 sq-ft = 12 watts/sq-ft (which was the initial goal)

I'm lost as to how the pool heating ties into the boiler. Someone else will need to assist with that one.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: titleist1 On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:32 pm

i remember somebody on here heating their pool with their coal boiler. I can't remember who and didn't see anything promising in a quick search.

Anybody remember who that was and maybe they could add some insight on the load their pool adds?
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: dalmatiangirl61 On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:29 pm

Good lord, you guys are scaring me! 30 lbs an hour x 24= 720 Lbs a day x 30 = 21600 lbs a month :o . I'd have to buy the local coal delivery business, and being your best customer is never a good business model, plus I'd have to hire a clinker boy to keep up with the ashes :lol: .

Lets look at this a different way, how much heat am I presently using to keep 2000 sq ft, 1/3 of the space, warm. When it gets really cold woodstove burns 24/7 and I burn 1 cord a month. A cord of Pine has approx 14,800,000 btu's divided by 30 = 493333.333 divided by 24 = 20,555.555 btu's per hour. The 3-1500watt electric radiators add another 15,000 btu's, so with 100% efficiency we are looking at approx 35,000 btu's per hour, although admittedly that is not keeping me as toasty warm as I'd like to be. So a seat of the pants wild ass guess (sorry Sting) tells me 200,000 btu would probably cover my needs MOST of the time, assuming I'm willing to cut heat to the pool in the coldest months.

I'm thinking a 400,000 btu boiler that is sitting in my room would keep it warm without any need for radiators in my room, just run steam lines to pool room and the front hallway :lol:

I think baseboard rads are hideous, and most I've seen have pipes coming up through floor which is just not possible here, so I'm thinking some big cast iron rads, run pipes along ceiling and drops to the rads.

As for plumbers, this is a small town, we have A plumber, he has a fine arts degree but there is no money in that so he is a plumber :lol: . So either I bring a crew in out of SLC, or its a DIY job, my real job for the past 20 years has been repairing/selling industrial equipment, and I am a machinist, so between me and the local plumber I think we can do a quality job.

I would prefer to do hot water instead of steam, primarily for the safety factor, secondly so I do not have to pay a boiler inspector to travel out here every year.

I'll try to get dimensions and figure gallonage of the pool today.
dalmatiangirl61
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Mystery Wood Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: Creosote King

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Sting On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:49 pm

dalmatiangirl61 wrote:Good lord, you guys are scaring me!


Image

everybody needs a hobby - but I have never noticed intentional drama on these pages.

Image

Most folks here just try to help - some help is misguided - some not

It Depends!

BTW -- hydronic heating is a fine art - so his degree is Germain to the task :)
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:51 pm

dalmatiangirl61 wrote:Good lord, you guys are scaring me! 30 lbs an hour x 24= 720 Lbs a day x 30 = 21600 lbs a month :o . I'd have to buy the local coal delivery business, and being your best customer is never a good business model, plus I'd have to hire a clinker boy to keep up with the ashes :lol:


It would be a rare and very cold day when you burned that much coal. I'd guess that on an average winter day you would burn about 20% to perhaps 25% of that. Call it 4,800 lbs. per month.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: mdhorvath On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:37 pm

My National 300 boiler with a 30 #/ hr stoker burned approximately 4,000 # per month heating about 6700 sq ft. in 15 degree weather. (wood structure with insulation)
mdhorvath
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S500 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Pea Anthracite

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Pacowy On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:40 pm

I believe the Mayor's rule of thumb for anthracite consumption in the northeast is 5 tons per year for each 2000 sf heated, so all else equal, heating 6,000 sf would be expected to translate to 15 tons/year. If the winters there are colder than here, or if the heated area can't effectively be separated from the unheated area, the total could be higher. Likewise, making DHW or heating the pool with the coal boiler could add to consumption, though it may also produce savings relative to the use of other fuels.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
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Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: KLook On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:46 pm

Come on folks, there is no free lunch. If she is going to heat that ark to any temp in -20 weather, it is going to cost money no matter what she uses. Short of her own geyser/hot spring in back, it will be cheapest with coal unless gas, oil, or wood is free. I can't imagine heating that ark with wood as I burned wood for many years. Softwood even! You could not lug enough wood to heat it. Geothermal???? Yeah right. A hot spring straight to the heat exchanger maybe. Get outta there and get something normal!

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:04 pm

The 720 lbs. per day event might happen once every 5-10 years, and for only one day. 150-160 lbs. per day during the winter months would be a better average. It's a big place.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:11 pm

titleist1 wrote:i remember somebody on here heating their pool with their coal boiler. I can't remember who and didn't see anything promising in a quick search.

Anybody remember who that was and maybe they could add some insight on the load their pool adds?


Watkins perhaps?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:28 pm

150 lbs. of coal per day would yield a usable output of about 53,000 BTU's per hour.

At 12 cents per pound your average monthly winter heating bill (to heat the entire 6,000 sq-ft) would be about $550. What are you paying on average now to heat only 2,000 sq-ft? And what is your comfort level? With coal and with heating the entire floor, you should be very comfortable.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:02 pm

Seems to me that using all that monolithic concrete as a heat store would be prudent. Run a whole heaping mess of the appropriate PEX subfloor radiant tubing and construct a flooring surface over the spaghetti. Heat the contents (Read: occupants) of the dungeon rather than the dungeon itself. It might take a week to bring everything up to temp but might make it more economical in the long run. She could zone one part of the dungeon at a time and add zones as necessary.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:16 pm

Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Visit Lehigh Anthracite