A Boiler for This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

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Rigar
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Post by Rigar » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 9:24 am

lsayre wrote:My calculations only considered home heating. For most of the days of the year only a small fraction of these 400K BTU's would be needed for home heating, and an abundance of excess BTU's would be available for the pool.
the pool and the room it is in will be the wildcard.
unless it is essentially abandoned during the summer (drained)...the pool and that room will
have to be heated...unless ur a member of the polar bear club :lol:

...indoor pools can be problematic when its warm OUTSIDE- as the tendancy to use them (an indoor pool) decreases..Its probably just human nature- but most ppl wont come (inside) on a hot day to go swimming ...(in a cold space)
Ive seen alot of ppl learn the hard way (despite words of caution) that a large indoor pool isnt all its cracked up to be- especially during the summer months
...im not trying to dicourage the pool- but realize it will need to be heated yr round to enjoy...emphasis on 'year round'


 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 12:25 pm

But Done right...
An indoor pool is very nice...
You have a very big pool room...
With the proper mechanicals to control humidity and temperature...
It will become 'The Place' to go...
Nice indoor grotto and nobody will want to leave...
http://www.houzz.com/photos/423267/Grotto-Swim-Up ... ahoma-city

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 3:41 pm

How is the boiler heat going to be distributed throughout the dungeon? Hot water baseboards?

if it is hot water baseboards, then by my calculations each individual room to be heated in the dungeon will need to have 0.0732 feet of 3/4" copper fin-tube hot water baseboards for every square foot of floor space that the individual room has.

3/4" Copper Fin-Tube HWB's are typically rated to deliver 560 BTU's per linear foot.

For the entire dungeon:
6,000 sq-ft overall x 0.0732 feet per sq-ft = ~440 linear feet of total HW baseboard needed

The whole house proof check for this is: 440 feet x 560 BTU's/foot = ~246,000 BTU's delivered across the entire dungeon.

Now lets assume that one of the individual rooms has 800 sq-ft of floor space.
0.0732 x 800 = ~59 feet of total HW baseboards are needed for that individual room.
59 x 560 = 33,000 BTU's that are needed for this room

More proof checking:
33,000 BTU's/3.412 BTU's per watt = 9,671 watts
9671 watts/800 sq-ft = 12 watts/sq-ft (which was the initial goal)

I'm lost as to how the pool heating ties into the boiler. Someone else will need to assist with that one.

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 4:32 pm

i remember somebody on here heating their pool with their coal boiler. I can't remember who and didn't see anything promising in a quick search.

Anybody remember who that was and maybe they could add some insight on the load their pool adds?

 
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Post by dalmatiangirl61 » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 5:29 pm

Good lord, you guys are scaring me! 30 lbs an hour x 24= 720 Lbs a day x 30 = 21600 lbs a month :o . I'd have to buy the local coal delivery business, and being your best customer is never a good business model, plus I'd have to hire a clinker boy to keep up with the ashes :lol: .

Lets look at this a different way, how much heat am I presently using to keep 2000 sq ft, 1/3 of the space, warm. When it gets really cold woodstove burns 24/7 and I burn 1 cord a month. A cord of Pine has approx 14,800,000 BTU's divided by 30 = 493333.333 divided by 24 = 20,555.555 BTU's per hour. The 3-1500watt electric radiators add another 15,000 btu's, so with 100% efficiency we are looking at approx 35,000 BTU's per hour, although admittedly that is not keeping me as toasty warm as I'd like to be. So a seat of the pants wild ass guess (sorry Sting) tells me 200,000 BTU would probably cover my needs MOST of the time, assuming I'm willing to cut heat to the pool in the coldest months.

I'm thinking a 400,000 BTU boiler that is sitting in my room would keep it warm without any need for radiators in my room, just run steam lines to pool room and the front hallway :lol:

I think baseboard rads are hideous, and most I've seen have pipes coming up through floor which is just not possible here, so I'm thinking some big cast iron rads, run pipes along ceiling and drops to the rads.

As for plumbers, this is a small town, we have A plumber, he has a fine arts degree but there is no money in that so he is a plumber :lol: . So either I bring a crew in out of SLC, or its a DIY job, my real job for the past 20 years has been repairing/selling industrial equipment, and I am a machinist, so between me and the local plumber I think we can do a quality job.

I would prefer to do hot water instead of steam, primarily for the safety factor, secondly so I do not have to pay a boiler inspector to travel out here every year.

I'll try to get dimensions and figure gallonage of the pool today.

 
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Sting
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Post by Sting » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 5:49 pm

dalmatiangirl61 wrote:Good lord, you guys are scaring me!
Image

everybody needs a hobby - but I have never noticed intentional drama on these pages.

Image

Most folks here just try to help - some help is misguided - some not

It Depends!

BTW -- hydronic heating is a fine art - so his degree is Germain to the task :)

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 5:51 pm

dalmatiangirl61 wrote:Good lord, you guys are scaring me! 30 lbs an hour x 24= 720 Lbs a day x 30 = 21600 lbs a month :o . I'd have to buy the local coal delivery business, and being your best customer is never a good business model, plus I'd have to hire a clinker boy to keep up with the ashes :lol:
It would be a rare and very cold day when you burned that much coal. I'd guess that on an average winter day you would burn about 20% to perhaps 25% of that. Call it 4,800 lbs. per month.


 
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Post by mdhorvath » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 6:37 pm

My National 300 boiler with a 30 #/ hr stoker burned approximately 4,000 # per month heating about 6700 sq ft. in 15 degree weather. (wood structure with insulation)

 
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Post by Pacowy » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 6:40 pm

I believe the Mayor's rule of thumb for anthracite consumption in the northeast is 5 tons per year for each 2000 sf heated, so all else equal, heating 6,000 sf would be expected to translate to 15 tons/year. If the winters there are colder than here, or if the heated area can't effectively be separated from the unheated area, the total could be higher. Likewise, making DHW or heating the pool with the coal boiler could add to consumption, though it may also produce savings relative to the use of other fuels.

Mike

 
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Post by KLook » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 6:46 pm

Come on folks, there is no free lunch. If she is going to heat that ark to any temp in -20 weather, it is going to cost money no matter what she uses. Short of her own geyser/hot spring in back, it will be cheapest with coal unless gas, oil, or wood is free. I can't imagine heating that ark with wood as I burned wood for many years. Softwood even! You could not lug enough wood to heat it. Geothermal???? Yeah right. A hot spring straight to the heat exchanger maybe. Get outta there and get something normal!

Kevin

 
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 7:04 pm

The 720 lbs. per day event might happen once every 5-10 years, and for only one day. 150-160 lbs. per day during the winter months would be a better average. It's a big place.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 7:11 pm

titleist1 wrote:i remember somebody on here heating their pool with their coal boiler. I can't remember who and didn't see anything promising in a quick search.

Anybody remember who that was and maybe they could add some insight on the load their pool adds?
Watkins perhaps?

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 7:28 pm

150 lbs. of coal per day would yield a usable output of about 53,000 BTU's per hour.

At 12 cents per pound your average monthly winter heating bill (to heat the entire 6,000 sq-ft) would be about $550. What are you paying on average now to heat only 2,000 sq-ft? And what is your comfort level? With coal and with heating the entire floor, you should be very comfortable.

 
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Post by Carbon12 » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 8:02 pm

Seems to me that using all that monolithic concrete as a heat store would be prudent. Run a whole heaping mess of the appropriate PEX subfloor radiant tubing and construct a flooring surface over the spaghetti. Heat the contents (Read: occupants) of the dungeon rather than the dungeon itself. It might take a week to bring everything up to temp but might make it more economical in the long run. She could zone one part of the dungeon at a time and add zones as necessary.

 
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Post by Carbon12 » Mon. Oct. 14, 2013 8:16 pm

Check this out:

http://www.warmboard.com


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