A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:37 pm

@ Dalmationgirl61: you're a braver man than I Gungedin! Quite the fixer upper you have. Maybe I missed it in the posts but what is your ultimate goal for the structure,......simply residential???
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Pacowy On: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:52 pm

dalmatiangirl61 wrote: I'm thinking a 400,000 btu boiler that is sitting in my room would keep it warm without any need for radiators in my room, just run steam lines to pool room and the front hallway :lol:

I think baseboard rads are hideous, and most I've seen have pipes coming up through floor which is just not possible here, so I'm thinking some big cast iron rads, run pipes along ceiling and drops to the rads.

I would prefer to do hot water instead of steam, primarily for the safety factor, secondly so I do not have to pay a boiler inspector to travel out here every year.


I was going to mention that a big boiler running without jackets will function effectively as a radiator, but I guess you beat me to it.

I'm not sure about going back to steam. You might distribute the steam the way you describe, but I think the returns generally would need to be lower than the rads. Plus, while a steam system would be authentic, I suspect the installation would be a bear. Please forgive me for asking, but I was wondering what you would think of some type of big water-to-air heat exchangers, sort of a DIY modine-setup? With the right blowers they could be quiet and inconspicuous, and put on their own zones (e.g., one at each end of the 90' room) they could distribute the needed heat on demand (much easier to zone than steam).

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: mozz On: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:19 pm

I still think this is a April fools joke. Anyone else?
mozz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Pacowy On: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:49 pm

Not me.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: agcowvet On: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:16 pm

Not me--the place sounds familiar from oldhouseweb maybe? Sorry to say I haven't got any real useful info to add, but, wow, good luck, hope you have deep pockets!
agcowvet
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: efm AF150
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Newmac NL-2 (oil)

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:03 pm

It appears to be a small electric space heater in a fireplace! Lol!


Ding Ding Ding! Carbon12 is the winner! Yup, I was helping some furnace cement dry with the heater that heated my apartment last winter and thought it would rub it in sufficiently. Sorry guys, couldn't resist. I am actually using the cement to firm up the original fireback and them putting a layer of 1 1/4 firebrick in front of it and using the same furnace cement to hold it to the back. I am just going to stack them up will a little in between to stick them together. Beats buying a couple of buckets of the mold able stuff and trying to form a new back 28 inches wide and 17 inches tall. And for what they get for them I wasn't about to buy one either. It depends on how this built in metal box works as to whether I burn any wood to speak of. I have not missed the spell of woodsmoke in my house for some time now. And the black streaks on the ceilings etc.
To be more on topic.....I think the multiple boiler or furnace option is the only one with any traction. A large enough machine to heat that house would be very expensive and hard to handle methinks. I don't think it is economically feasible to heat the entire structure all winter unless you are wealthy or making money from the building somehow. At -40 with a wind blowing, it is mind numbing how many Btu's are required. And just drain the pool, who needs a pool indoors at -40 unless someone is paying you to swim in it? Put some fish in it and let it freeze over and have an ice fishing derby! :idea:

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: dalmatiangirl61 On: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:42 am

mozz wrote:I still think this is a April fools joke. Anyone else?


Its not April, and this is not a joke. To be honest, there are days I wish it was a bad dream I could wake up from and have a good laugh over, but no matter how hard I pinch myself, here I am.

Ok, confession time, I got into this project 10 years ago thinking I could have a livable space in 3 years and from there I could carry on, well, that did not happen. The building had a lot of major structural and systems problems that I was not aware of, and its just pushed everything over-budget and over time, and the fact that I cannot live here year round has not helped. (thankfully security specialist in Vegas were dirt cheap a few years ago so if anyone is thinking of breaking in while I'm gone, good luck :lol: )

So my plan for this year was just get this one room livable year round, this includes carpeting, furniture, a real bed, and something that dumps enough heat into this room to keep me warm. Heating the pool/pool room would be nice, but it still needs a lot of work before that is realistically feasible. So as much as I'd like to add a huge boiler to heat the entire dungeon, between the work that still needs to be done to my room and the pool room, its just not realistic at this point in time.

So if we are just talking about heating 2000 sq ft of space, and maybe in the milder months tossing excess heat into the pool room so it can be worked on, what do you guys think of this setup http://scranton.craigslist.org/for/4093447678.html? Its well within this years budget and as a 3-5 year setup I could live with this unit feeding Modine heat exchangers in my room, and something temporary to dump heat into pool room, when the pool and room are done I could actually install a permanent system.

My dream for this building (assuming money was not an object) is an upscale B&B, a deli/coffee shop in main entranceway with seating on front/rear porches, a museum/art gallery in the gymnasium, hostel rooms on the second floor for single upscale travelers, and really nice rooms on the top floor for those that can afford them. The front and rear porches for both upper floors (which presently do not exist) would be open to all overnight guests, as well as the pool. I believe this town has the potential to see this as a viable use for the building, whether it happens in my lifetime is the question.

My plan at this point in time is just to finish the basement, including the pool, which is what sucked me into this living nightmare :lol: . The upper 3 floors are going on hold, I'm sure some day some nice young couple with a fresh inheritance will say "it will only take 3 years to finish".............. :lol:
dalmatiangirl61
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Mystery Wood Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: Creosote King

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:19 am

That's a solid unit and it's priced to move.

I think there have been mixed reviews from burning bit in GJ stokers. The feed tube has a bigger ID than an EFM 520 (a similar underfeed design that was tested successfully with Utah bit), so it's reasonable to expect the coal would feed and burn reasonably well. However, AFAIK forum member Berlin, an experienced bit burner, has had a GJ stoker for sale in the classifieds because of difficulties he had using it with bit. Perhaps he'll chime in on this.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:30 am

Perhaps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py49seodBPU

Or larger could be found that burns bit well. Europachris is an expert.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 110K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93, Jotul 507
Baseburners & Antiques: Red Cross Invader 2
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:05 pm

Mike is right. In my opinion the opposing augers under the retort of the GJ cause a significant amount of coal grinding when used with softer coals. I had other issues w/ my GJ that were related to auger/tube size and tube corrosion, not the fault of the GJ, however, this design feature (opposing augers under the retort) still caused more coal grinding than other stokers. Enough to potentially be a problem.

Bituminous coals like steeper tuyeres on the sides of the retort and deeper than most anthracite stokers. The allen, Wagner, and VanWert's seem to be better designed (probably not at all intentionally) for bituminous burning, there are likely many other makes that would work well too. Mike and others are knowledgeable about many different anthracite stokers, all I'm doing is suggesting that certain aspects of the stokers' design are more likely to burn bituminous well than others.

I still think your best bet is to be looking west of the mississippi on craigslists for dedicated bit burners because the bit specific stokers have MUCH large auger tubes (less difficulty with finding a coal that will feed) and will burn coals of just about any quality level satisfactorily. Or look on this site; there's an individual with a bit stoker for sale in the classifieds right now on this site. An anthracite stoker may work, but, trying it is a gamble and it may require significant modification to get it to work well. I have just finished this with an allen stoker. Untill I actually run it for a few days, I'm still not 100% that it will work as I intend. The clinkering type underfeed stoker however is very forgiving and WILL work well with just about any coal you throw at it, although, they typically have some downsides. Clinker removal - once/day, or once/every other day (more frequent than ash pan removal on a stoker that produces powdery ash), they are VERY hard to find in bin feed, typically they all have a hopper that has to be filled (in your place probably daily).
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:53 pm

Hey Kristin! Here's what you need. In your immediate price range.


http://provo.craigslist.org/atq/4100480436.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

It's a reasonable coal furnace.. It is a sectional coal furnace which means that it can be taken apart and re-assembled at your location.The sections weigh a couple hundred pounds. It is a little ways from you but with a little work, you can have a decent start on a good system. This is a manual system that can be upgraded to a stoker type when you find the right one. Some inexpensive insulated duct and you are in business. It will give you a temporary heat system, time to learn more about the coal, and find the right system for your needs. Stay warm :) Scott
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 350, 700. Van Wert 400 x 2, 800, 1200.
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:30 pm

Scottscoaled wrote:Hey Kristin! Here's what you need. In your immediate price range.


http://provo.craigslist.org/atq/4100480436.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

It's a reasonable coal furnace.. It is a sectional coal furnace which means that it can be taken apart and re-assembled at your location.The sections weigh a couple hundred pounds. It is a little ways from you but with a little work, you can have a decent start on a good system. This is a manual system that can be upgraded to a stoker type when you find the right one. Some inexpensive insulated duct and you are in business. It will give you a temporary heat system, time to learn more about the coal, and find the right system for your needs. Stay warm :) Scott


It INCLUDES a stoker!
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: dalmatiangirl61 On: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:02 am

I just got off the phone with seller of the Sunbeam boiler, or at least he made it sound like a boiler instead of a furnace. He has no idea what the btu rating is, says it was installed in the 50's and just removed a few months ago. The stoker is a Stok-coal, not sure if that is correct spelling though, anyone familiar with that name?
dalmatiangirl61
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Mystery Wood Stove
Stove/Furnace Model: Creosote King

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Berlin On: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:31 am

If it's in functional condition, buy it, you're not going to find too many better deals for a boiler (or furnace, which I believe it is) and a stoker. The stokol stoker is a common name and is not "part" of the unit, but a separate stoker that's installed into the sunbeam furnace, it can be installed in a boiler at any time should you find one. Once again, if it works, buy it. Make sure the tuyeres (the cast iron sections with air holes in them - in the burnpot) are in good shape, getting replacements can be hard to find, but if they are not fed w/ too much air for the fuel rate, they'll last decades.

to refurbish these things typically the transmission seals need to be replaced and it will need a thorough cleaning.

Just to be clear, that's a very fair price, if it works, buy it.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: A Boiler For This Old Dungeon With A Swimming Pool

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:44 am

I like deals as much as anybody, but I'm only lukewarm on this one. If you Google "Sunbeam furnace Elyria" you'll find several pieces of literature on a line of hot air furnaces sold between 1910-1930's. If someone is selling it as a boiler I'd recommend asking for pics of the piping connections.

A furnace that old potentially could still be useful. The cast iron guts of old octopus furnaces periodically show up on Craigslist and elsewhere, and appear to have life left in them. The flip side of that is that even well-made furnaces have a fairly tough life, and any unit in service as long as this one should be checked carefully, particularly the integrity of the heat exchanger. As documented in a recent thread, even a name-brand unit you get for free isn't necessarily a bargain if the heat exchanger is shot.

I'll defer to Berlin and anyone else who is familiar with Stokol stokers. I appreciate the materials and workmanship found in many of the old stokers, and heat my house with one whose age is unknown. That said, my comfort with it rests largely on the fact that it is a professionally-reconditioned unit from a dealer who maintains an inventory of parts. If similar support is available for the Stokol, this could be a good deal; if not it seems like it might be more of a crapshoot.

Sorry for the wet blanket.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Visit Lehigh Anthracite