Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Seven On: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:45 am

Hi all,

This is my second year saving lots of money and living in a more comfortable house and I am still learning and shaking out bugs. I found lots of help here last year.

My manometer (measured at the 8" pipe 2' from boiler) is at .01 when stoker motor is not running and it climbs to .02-3 when it is running.

I get some light smoke/sulfur smell in the boiler room but nothing to ever register on the monitors in the house. I know the manometer readings are low when compared to ideal. Where should I start to look for issues? How should check for leaks?

Has anyone ever used Tjernlund AD-1 Auto Draft inducer? The chimney tops are pretty costly and seem to just run all the time.

Stats:
EFM DF520
rectangler Clay flue approx 7.5x7.5 height is approx. 19-22'
Worcester PA 19490
current weather conditions: 59.5 degrees, pressure at 30", wind at 3.6 mph


Thanks for any suggestions,

Roger
Seven
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:56 am

I know of a few guys using that draft inducer with good results. You would probably be able to wire it just to come on when the stoker runs. You may just be getting a slight puff out the Baro when the stoker starts.

But before you get out the tools, are you sure the fumes aren't coming from the auger? How long is the auger pipe? Are there holes drilled in the end of the pot auger pipe?

Is the base well sealed?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Seven On: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:53 am

I am running the long auger tube into a pallet style bin layout so I don't think it coming through the tube but it could be. It is raining here and approaching 60. My chimney is greater than 3 feet above the top of the house. I do have trees around the front and side of the house but the closest is about 15' away. the rest are all 20-40 feet away but the house is completely sourrounded by trees on two sides.

At one point I was thinking of running year round to heat a pool but these draft issues forced me to shut down.

I have since done some "searching" and see some are using the AD-1 with results but it doesn't sound like people run them 24x7.
Seven
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

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Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Dennis On: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:27 am

is this a new problem or have you always had low draft?
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Seven On: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:42 am

The draft has always been poor. Right now we still have leaves on the trees I mentioned previously.

This summer I changed the thimble and stove pipe arrangement in hopes that it would help create more draft. I have an oil burner as well. Now they both use the same flue but now they each have their own thimble. I had the bottom clay liner replaced/repaired as it was out of line with the rest, plus had a thimble for the 8" coal installed above a 7" thimble for the oil which is above a clean out that was installed.

Then I was able to have a better run fromt the 520 to the thimble with stove pipe. I come out about 16" then have a clean out T angled at about a 45 up to the thimble which has an adjustable 90 that is smoothed out to 95-100 degrees. The run is probably 7.5' and has a field controls damper in the middle.

I can't see so far that the draft has approved after spending the time and money on these things. Of course I'm not perfectly comparing ambient conditions... I had such a low flame this morning I shut the boiler down because the CO monitor was climbing in the boiler room. Now it is 61 degrees, 30" of pressure and wind is 3.1 mph.
Seven
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:33 pm

Some people run the draft inducer all the time, others only when the stoker is running. There is no issue with running it 24/7 if that is what you need.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: McGiever On: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:45 pm

Hmmm, draft inducer on 1 appliance with 2 appliances going into 1 chimney...might push gases/fumes over and out 2nd appliance at some point.
That would not be good. :help:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:22 pm

Easy enough to cap the other thimble.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:39 pm

Seven,

How tight is your house ?? You might want to try opening a window near the boiler to provide enough combustion air. Friday was a tough day. weather sucked big time. Possibly running the boiler at a higher temperature may heat up the flue enough to get a higher draft.

How did you do with draft during the middle of last winter when it was cold outside ??? This time of year especially with rain is tough on the drafting situation.





Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Lightning On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:27 am

I'm no expert on using 2 appliances on one chimney. My question is, why wouldn't the appliance that's not in use, spoil the draft for the other one that is? Can't room air get pulled thru the oil burner if the coal burner is running?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:06 am

Likewise,no expert, but 2 appliances appear to complecate the issue.
Be very carefull if/when blocking or capping off the oil fired...disable startability and hang a sign by switch to remind to un-cap before re-start...to prevent a flood of carbon-monoxide into the home due to the cap or blockage.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Wiz On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:21 am

Did you cap Baro on oil boiler to see if that helped?
Wiz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker Ka 6
Coal Size/Type: Casey Junk Coal :(

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Rigar On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:38 am

all of the above...
and- does the 'clean out' door close and seal properly?
...seems like too many pissibilities for un wantex air leaks
..would it be feasible to
.eliminate boiler altogether cap that thimble and try it that way?
.. probly a PITA.....but may be worth a try
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: Seven On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:38 pm

Thanks to all that have replied.

The two boiler are wired on the same circuit in a manner in-which only or the other can be powered at a time. They share a flue in the chimney but they cannot both be on at the same time.

Last winter even in sub 30 degrees the draft never really went above .03 for a steady time period. I had some issues where the bottom clay liner (24" length) was broke free and badly misaligned. That was corrected this summer and the individual thimbles added.

I could cap the oil boiler off and seal the damper to see if this has an impact.

When I identified the bottom clay liner issue in the spring it was on a warmer day where we turned on the whole house attic fan. We noticed that when the oil burner was on, only cycling when the indirect domestic water heater calls for demand, it could be smelled by the fan pulling the exhaust through upstairs fireplace. So I started looking around and found the broken liner.

Now the fix seems to have worked. However, could I still have leaks from one flue to the other? Could the draft be pulling from one of the other 2 flues? Anyone seen this before?

I can try to seal off the oil burner, damper and the other two flues. Certainly I will try these one at a time to judge results. Any one have thoughts on how to seal the flues from another?
Seven
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Just lit DF520 : low draft-should a draft inducer be used

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:03 pm

I like your logic, Seven! One step at a time.......slow and steady always wins the race! I have been using draft inducers this year all over the place. I actually like the effect and I also understand that you can get 3 speed models, and a variable speed control also. For less than $200, you can sleep well, and probably NEVER have an out-fire in the warmer months.
You certainly could wire the inducer to start with the burner/stoker, however a pre-start and post-start timer would be the best for intermittent service IMO.
All the ones I installed are 24/7/365 units.(I was worried about fly ash building up in the blower housing when not turned on) In case no one has seen an install, the inducer mounts in the very bottom of the flue pipe and has an adjustable sliding flap to control the rate of flow. I tried leaving it off for 4 hours, then on, and found that fly ash would blow out the small holes around the inducer. My only thought would be to have a means of blower motor speed control, however even that was tossed around because I knew the motor has a small fan that cools the inducer motor.....and would slower rpms reduce the longevity of the FAN MOTOR. ....no easy answers, so I left them humming at 1720 rpm.......
I sure would love to have one on my hand-fed units, however that defeats the 'no auxiliary power required'.(In marginal draft situations, no need to create a forge out of a coal stove,,,,,) Good luck, and keep the silent majority informed! :idea:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

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